Wait a minute!!!
If Kennedy loses his "stuff" to a few different people, why is he still not the best. If Webb Has his 2 mile best and Ritz has his 10k best and Teg or Lagat beats his 5k AR, who would you say is the best American distance runner ever???
I say he still is the best ever and you need ONE of those guys to single-handedly take down Kennedy's times and records.
Man that was f***ing hilarious.
can't even hold a candle to bob yet.
1 12:58.21 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 5 Zürich 14.08.1996
2 12:58.75 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 2 Stockholm 08.07.1996
3 12:59.29 Bernard Lagat USA 12.12.74 1 Berlin 04.09.2005
4 13:01.15 Sydney Maree USA 09.09.56 2 Oslo 27.07.1985
5 13:02.93 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 2 Oslo 22.07.1994
6 13:03.37 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 4 Zürich 16.08.1995
7 13:03.57 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 6 Berlin 01.09.1998
8 13:04.04 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 5 Milano 07.09.1996
9 13:05.18 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 7 Roma 14.07.1998
10 13:05.54 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 5 Zürich 11.08.1999
11 13:05.93 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 2 Villeneuve d'Ascq
12 13:06.12 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 2 Berlin 30.08.1996
13 13:06.62 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 6 Stockholm 07.07.1997
14 13:07.71 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 9 Zürich 13.08.1997
15 13:08.43 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 9 Roma 07.07.1999
16 13:09.64 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 5 Oslo 21.07.1995
17 13:10.19 Adam Goucher USA 18.02.75 8rA Heusden-Zolder 23.07.2005
18 13:10.86 Alan Webb USA 13.01.83 8 Berlin 04.09.2005
19 13:11.25 Adam Goucher USA 18.02.75 10 Zürich 11.08.1999
20 13:11.77 Mebrahtom Keflezighi USA 05.05.75 2 Heusden-Zolder 05.08.2000
the list before teg's 13:04. Bob has 6 performances faster than that, and still a butt load under 13:10
One great race won't surpass Kennedy's great career. You high school kids need to get a grip. Teg's 10th fastest 5K is probably in the 13:50's.
Agreed, but Teg showed something by running a 5000 faster than any current American has done recently, excepting B. Lagat. For all the hype that Webb and Goucher have gotten for running about 13:10, Teg deserves some for running about 13:05.
I trained with both Matt and Bob here in SOCAL, Matt has the potential to be the best American runner as early as this summer, he is showing signs of greatness. I think Bob's record are in jeopardy.
xpert wrote:
Forget the "times" as track surfaces get faster, and equipment gets higher tech. What remains the measurement of greatness in a certain event for Americans is how they place in the World Championships and the Olympics. Those races require competing in heats and some times tactical finals. Medals set apart the great ones from the rest.
Do you really think that track surfaces and equipment technology have changed that much since Kennedy's glory days? Or even since the 80's for that matter? If you are comparing Teg to Zatopek then you have a valid point. Otherwise, this doesn't make sense.
what does make sense is that when kennedy was flirting with 13 minutes, that was still damn fast. a few years earlier, he would have had a chance at the world record. then geb came along. so 1305 doesnt seem as fast today as it did when kennedy was running those times. now, bekele has run back to back 13 11s. so it's not so much equipment as mindset that has changed, which we all know makes a big difference.
not to take anything away from teg. great performance, and hopefully it will show other americans that they can get there, too.
Will Teg do a Kennedy and all that that entails? ("I will do whatever I have to to compete with the Africans.")
Wrong. There are down years, top guys get injured, etc. Track is simple. There's a distance. You run that distance. Whoever runs it fastest is the best. If you didn't happen to be on the line on the day with perfect conditions, then too bad; you missed out.[/quote]
By that logic I am a better runner than the great Paavo Nurmi who set numerous world records and won Olympic titles. Track has always been about competition. Kennedy had an incredible career. He dominated American running for over a decade and competed on the world stage when no other American could. Maybe one day we can look back and say that Teg was better but that day is at least 5 years away in my opinion. He has had a great season but must make an Olympic or world championship track team before he has international credibility.
Sean Connery wrote:
Wrong. There are down years, top guys get injured, etc. Track is simple. There's a distance. You run that distance. Whoever runs it fastest is the best. If you didn't happen to be on the line on the day with perfect conditions, then too bad; you missed out.
By that logic I am a better runner than the great Paavo Nurmi who set numerous world records and won Olympic titles. Track has always been about competition. Kennedy had an incredible career. He dominated American running for over a decade and competed on the world stage when no other American could. Maybe one day we can look back and say that Teg was better but that day is at least 5 years away in my opinion. He has had a great season but must make an Olympic or world championship track team before he has international credibility.[/quote]
If you have faster times than Paavo Nurmi, then you are better than he is. I'll have to give some time to him based on better technology now, but mostly, it's a simple time thing. What if for some reason one Olympic year the top 5 athletes in the 1500 are unable to compete. The guy who would have finished 6th then wins the Gold medal. Does he get to be known then as a better athlete than someone who always beat him and had better times than he did simply because he got lucky and won a race one day? Winning races doesn't mean as much as it should. Of course that's the ultimate goal on race day, but if the field is weak, the win is meaningless. The best times dictate the best runners.
I enjoy reading the threads on letsrun, but I usually don't post. But to say someone that runs 14 minutes for 5K today is better than Nurmi is so ridiculous that it's down right hilarious. No argument - Nurmi is the top five greatest distance runners of all time (and I can easily make a case for him being the best ever). I really hope that you was on something when you came up with this time-means-everything logic.
Also, I was at the USA Track Championships in Indy: when Teg threw in a below 60-second lap during the 5K race to seperate the runners, and still finish as strong as he did, I knew he we was capable of running a really fast time.
13-04-point-whatever is great for the other Americans. I can't wait to see what the others can do in the same type of race.
Chocolate wrote:
If you have faster times than Paavo Nurmi, then you are better than he is.
The original poster must think Nurmi is still competing. Now go ride your BMX bike around the block a few times, son. And don't forget your helmet. Lunch be ready soon!
TK wrote:
I enjoy reading the threads on letsrun, but I usually don't post. But to say someone that runs 14 minutes for 5K today is better than Nurmi is so ridiculous that it's down right hilarious. No argument - Nurmi is the top five greatest distance runners of all time (and I can easily make a case for him being the best ever). I really hope that you was on something when you came up with this time-means-everything logic.
Also, I was at the USA Track Championships in Indy: when Teg threw in a below 60-second lap during the 5K race to seperate the runners, and still finish as strong as he did, I knew he we was capable of running a really fast time.
13-04-point-whatever is great for the other Americans. I can't wait to see what the others can do in the same type of race.
Nurmi may have perhaps been the most accomplished runner ever considering how well he did against other runners of his era, but that does not make him the best or even close to it. Pretty much, anyone who has a faster time than Nurmi's PR at a given distance is better than Nurmi. That's why we record the time and keep records. Records will always be broken, and the one who holds the record is the best.
Remember Kennedy was on top for 10yrs.
I think Adam G will be the fasted American by the end of the summer. ..12:59
Chocolate wrote:
Nurmi may have perhaps been the most accomplished runner ever considering how well he did against other runners of his era, but that does not make him the best or even close to it. Pretty much, anyone who has a faster time than Nurmi's PR at a given distance is better than Nurmi. That's why we record the time and keep records. Records will always be broken, and the one who holds the record is the best.
I hate this argument. I hope you die a painful death
Speeve wrote:
Chocolate wrote:Nurmi may have perhaps been the most accomplished runner ever considering how well he did against other runners of his era, but that does not make him the best or even close to it. Pretty much, anyone who has a faster time than Nurmi's PR at a given distance is better than Nurmi. That's why we record the time and keep records. Records will always be broken, and the one who holds the record is the best.
I hate this argument. I hope you die a painful death
Ok then. You tell me why we should still consider Paavo Nurmi one of the greats. Because he won so many championship races? He did that against inferior competition. Because he raised the bar? That just makes him ground-breaking or an innovator; it doesn't make him the best. He was great for his time. He is not one of the all time greats. Ryan Hall is faster. Some guy down the street is faster.
He made history, but that's all it is...history.
Goucher and Hall may not be a threat for a sub 13:00 5k, but Teg certainly is. Heck, he is only about 30 yards from breaking 13.
Chocolate,
You obviously have no idea what it means to be a winner. I'm guessing you've never won a race in your life. What an idiot you are. You know nothing about this sport. Thats probably why you're so bad at it.
you're lost pal... times are not run in a vacuum, meaning what other people are doing and training technology, etc. matter a lotwhat does to be better mean, do you think if the genetic twin of paavo nurmi had been 40 years later he would have only run 14 for a 5k... yeah rightget a little perspective and stop spinning the crap that comes out of your mouth
Chocolate wrote:
TK wrote:I enjoy reading the threads on letsrun, but I usually don't post. But to say someone that runs 14 minutes for 5K today is better than Nurmi is so ridiculous that it's down right hilarious. No argument - Nurmi is the top five greatest distance runners of all time (and I can easily make a case for him being the best ever). I really hope that you was on something when you came up with this time-means-everything logic.
Also, I was at the USA Track Championships in Indy: when Teg threw in a below 60-second lap during the 5K race to seperate the runners, and still finish as strong as he did, I knew he we was capable of running a really fast time.
13-04-point-whatever is great for the other Americans. I can't wait to see what the others can do in the same type of race.
Nurmi may have perhaps been the most accomplished runner ever considering how well he did against other runners of his era, but that does not make him the best or even close to it. Pretty much, anyone who has a faster time than Nurmi's PR at a given distance is better than Nurmi. That's why we record the time and keep records. Records will always be broken, and the one who holds the record is the best.