Illinois does it right in my opinion with a mix of sectional meet placement and qualify times.
Sectional meet a week before the state meet.
Top 2 from each event at this meet auto-qualify
Anyone who meets the predetermined qualifying standards (times/heights/distances) at this meet also qualify.
No one gets punished for being one of the best runners in the state if the two best are in their same sectional, and you also don't get people running qualifying times week 1 and then showing up to the state meet injured/out of shape later in the year.
I can second this. You’re usually not completely safe to make the meet unless you’re top 8 or so with a week to go, because all those kids on the cusp will be running in fast races right before states.
How do I make sure I get to the meet with the massive tailwind in the 100? Time based qualifiers seem crazy. What if I run a great time in march then get injured? I still get to go over people who are way fitter than me? How about for the distance events? Seems like if you're a 2 miler from Colorado, you need to travel to low elevation to get into a fast race (Hello Arcadia!)
100/200/100H/110H/LJ/TJ all have to be wind legal (<2.0m/s) and achieved within the CHSAA season in a qualifying meet. Qualifying meets are approved by CHSAA before the season starts, basically need to be FAT and on CO soil, so obviously that rules out Arcadia and the like. If you get the mark early and then get injured you still get to go if you haven't been bumped out of the top 18 by the Saturday before the State Meet. People do scratch if they are either unable to complete or if they've qualified in more events than they want to compete in, which then allows the 19th best person to get in.
Massachusetts has 6 state wide divisional "state meets" which in running events has the top 32 in the division qualify for time. So 192 kids per gender per event will call themselves state qualifiers. The following week is the all divisional state meet - the real state meet for individuals (no team scoring) that the top 24 times from the season qualify for plus any divisional meet winners that weren't in the top 24 times. To be in this meet you also have to have run the event at the divisional meet, so it keeps the paces at the divisional meets honest - they are effectively the last chance meets for anyone on the bubble. In both cases, the qualifying time must come from an NFHS meet. Overall I think it's a decent system - only issues is that the track orientations at the divisional meet (effectively the last chance meets) can cause some sprints to be in a headwind and some to be in a tailwind, and it's not up to the runner. They are also 2 day meets, with a break day, so makes doubling too easy in my opinion. 2mile or 800 on Thursday and 1mile on Saturday takes away from the impressiveness that a double win carries in other states. Also, the only events with prelims are the short sprints. All other events just have slow to fast heats
I think my only suggestions would be to leave the divisional meets as is, and make the meet of champions meet finals all on one day and add prelims to all events but 2 mile on day 1
All of the private coaches get to text and tell the school coach who gets to run. And then make sure to let everyone know that they coached the athlete.
Do you have a time to qualify? Do you have to place at a certain Regional or Sectional? Do they take top X+ the next best Y times?
How do you guys determine all this stuff?
Oklahoma is pretty simple.
Six classes for six state meets. Four regionals... Three qualifiers for each event at the four regionals go to state.
A week after state... They have the Meet of Champions... where anyone who won their event in any one of the six state meets can race the other champions in that event. Attendance at this meet is pretty spotty. Most of the large school champs don't show up for this.
Connecticut has 5 class meets run in 3 days. Class LL L M MM S
To be eligible for CIAC Class Championship competition, each competitor must have achieved the following time, distance or height in a regular season meet. Relay splits are not allowed as qualifying standards.
State open
ELIGIBILITY TO COMPETE AT THE STATE OPEN THE TOP THREE (3) FINISHERS IN EACH EVENT AT THE CLASS CHAMPIONSHIP MEETS AND THE NEXT 12 BEST PERFORMANCES FROM ALL THE CLASS MEETS. Plus – High jump and pole vault places will be determined using NFHS rules. Ties will also be broken using the NFHS mandates. 8.4 Advancement from the CIAC Class Championship to the CIAC Open Championship is predicated on the competitor’s performance in the Class Championship Finals (excluding trials in running events). (Note: Any athlete who competes in three (3) events at any of the class meets cannot enter any other event at the Open championship meet. – See Appendix A – Event Limitations Explanation
New England Championships Top 6 advance
Mass, New Hampshire, Vermont , Maine , Rhode Island
Note CT may change runners on relays at this event, different than rule 8-4 above.
Most States have pretty much the same theme, just a different nomenclature.
For instance, Maryland has four Classes, AA, A B, C, divided by school size. So there are four State Champions. To qualify for States, each Class holds District Meets a week before the State Meets.
California is divided into 10 sections. Each section gets to send a pre-determined number of athletes to the state meet. Larger sections get to send more athletes than smaller sections. My section, The Sac-Joaquin, gets 3 slots. I believe that the total number of qualifiers is 27. However, the state also has "at large" marks. These marks are the average of the 9th place finisher over the past 4 years. The idea here is that if you are good enough to have made the finals at state for the past 4 years, then you shouldn't be denied the opportunity to compete at state if you just happened to have had very tough competition at your section championship. This results in a number of additional kids making the state meet. For example, 2 years ago, 7 boy pole vaulters qualified out of our section. Auto qual marks have to be achieved at the section championship meet.
It is extremely difficult to qualify for the CIF meet from most of the sections. In my section, there are somewhere between 500 and 3000 kids who compete in a given event. Of those 3000 kids, only 3 advance to state.
Each section has the autonomy to hold it's championships as it sees fit. My section has a divisional championship, where schools compete against like sized schools for the title of section team champion. To get to the divisional meet, you have to qualify out of your league meet.
So, most post seasons look like this
-Week 1: League finals. There may be a trials meet for some leagues as well which would take place earlier in the week. Depending on your league, you need to be in the top 3-6 to advance to the next round.
- Week 2: Divisional Trials and Divisional Finals: For my section these meets were either Tue/Fri or Wed/Sat, depending on what division you are in. Depending on your division, you need to be in the top 5-8 to advance
- Week 3: Section "Masters Meet" Trials and Finals. These meets were Fri/Sat in my section until this year, where we have eliminated the trials meet. You need to be in the top 3 here, unless you hit an at large mark.
- Week 4: State Trials and Finals: Once again, Fri/Sat.
Bear in mind, I described my section's process. Other sections have different versions. Our section is the second largest in the state, so ours was a little more difficult
i'll chime in here for southern section and central coast section
Central Coast Section:
Week 1-2: League trials and finals. Each league is given heavy leeway to figure out how they want to hold these, and they vary greatly across the section. SCVAL, one of the larger leagues, splits into two, and then holds prelims on Tuesday and finals on Thursday. The top 9 times in each event across both divisions of the league progresses to League finals the following Saturday. Some smaller leagues will hold an overall league prelims on week 1, and then overall finals on week 2.
Week 3: Section trials: Each league gets a certain number of automatic entrants to section trials, each based on their size. However, there are also at-large times people in each league can hit to advance anyway.
Week 4: Section finals: Top 9 from the prior week advance to section finals.
Week 5: State meet: Friday/Saturday. Top 3 plus at-large qualifiers advance to the state meet. Prelims on Friday. Top 9 advance to finals. Prelims on Friday is oftentimes more difficult than finals the next day, especially in events like the 800. I think it took a 1:51 to make the 12-man final last year.
Southern Section:
Southern Section, as the largest section, has an unreasonably convoluted system to filter out the best. It's hard as hell to advance if you are in southern section.
Week 1: League prelims and finals. Some leagues have prelims, some don't it really depends.
Week 2: Southern section divisional prelims: each school is divided into whatever division it belongs in, where they then participate in a prelims (and finals) round against other schools of the same division. Prelims for each division are held at differing locations depending on division.
Week 3: This week is the real test for southern section runners. The top 9 in each event for each division from the prior week advance. In order to advance to the masters meet next week, you must place within the top 9 (or more for distance and field events) overall times from ALL divisions that day. In practice, this means that the vast majority of runners need to run all-out efforts, because you are racing against people of each division without actually, physically racing against them. Because of potential weather advantage otherwise, divisional finals are held on the same track for all divisions. Each division's race goes off one after the other.
Week 4: California's system of at-large time essentially exists solely for the southern section. Despite getting 6 automatic entrants to the state meet (in comparison to basically every other sections 3), such is the depth in the southern section that the last 3 runners in each masters meet final could likely still make state finals on a good day. All 9 runners from the masters meet final will often run under the at-large standard, in comparison to other sections, where you would be lucky to see 1-2 runners hit the at-large in an event.
Week 5: State meet. It should go without saying, but this section DOMINATES the state meet.
How do I make sure I get to the meet with the massive tailwind in the 100? Time based qualifiers seem crazy. What if I run a great time in march then get injured? I still get to go over people who are way fitter than me? How about for the distance events? Seems like if you're a 2 miler from Colorado, you need to travel to low elevation to get into a fast race (Hello Arcadia!)
100/200/100H/110H/LJ/TJ all have to be wind legal (<2.0m/s) and achieved within the CHSAA season in a qualifying meet. Qualifying meets are approved by CHSAA before the season starts, basically need to be FAT and on CO soil, so obviously that rules out Arcadia and the like. If you get the mark early and then get injured you still get to go if you haven't been bumped out of the top 18 by the Saturday before the State Meet. People do scratch if they are either unable to complete or if they've qualified in more events than they want to compete in, which then allows the 19th best person to get in.
OK. That makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification.
NC - top 16 best marks per event qualify for each regional (3 in 1A-7A, 2 in 8A), top 4 (1A/7A) or 6 (8A) in each event at regionals qualify for states, 4 “wild cards” with the best regional marks across all regions that did not place top-4 also qualify
Most States have pretty much the same theme, just a different nomenclature.
For instance, Maryland has four Classes, AA, A B, C, divided by school size. So there are four State Champions. To qualify for States, each Class holds District Meets a week before the State Meets.
I think more states should adopt the top x+ y best times. Back in the day when things were all hand timed you could have some wild variations but today it's much more uniform. Just taking the top 2-3 is a bit lazy IMO.
I know that does leave some questions about poor weather conditions for some vs ideal for others, etc.. but my goal would be to ensure that all of the best athletes in each event are at the best meet- the state finals.
This post was edited 50 seconds after it was posted.
Most States have pretty much the same theme, just a different nomenclature.
For instance, Maryland has four Classes, AA, A B, C, divided by school size. So there are four State Champions. To qualify for States, each Class holds District Meets a week before the State Meets.
I think more states should adopt the top x+ y best times. Back in the day when things were all hand timed you could have some wild variations but today it's much more uniform. Just taking the top 2-3 is a bit lazy IMO.
I know that does leave some questions about poor weather conditions for some vs ideal for others, etc.. but my goal would be to ensure that all of the best athletes in each event are at the best meet- the state finals.
Actually I believe Maryland did just that. When I ran States was an 8 man final, mostly from two counties
I think more states should adopt the top x+ y best times. Back in the day when things were all hand timed you could have some wild variations but today it's much more uniform. Just taking the top 2-3 is a bit lazy IMO.
I know that does leave some questions about poor weather conditions for some vs ideal for others, etc.. but my goal would be to ensure that all of the best athletes in each event are at the best meet- the state finals.
Nah. Direct competition to qualify is the way to go. Maybe it's just what I'm used to, but I think it ensures that the kids that qualify are the ones who are most ready to go RIGHT NOW. Plus, it ensures that the state meet isn't just from "2 counties" as Malmo pointed out. At large marks (as we do in CA) help ensure that fast kids from competitive areas aren't left out in favor of kids who qualify from slower areas.
California is divided into 10 sections. Each section gets to send a pre-determined number of athletes to the state meet. Larger sections get to send more athletes than smaller sections. My section, The Sac-Joaquin, gets 3 slots. I believe that the total number of qualifiers is 27. However, the state also has "at large" marks. These marks are the average of the 9th place finisher over the past 4 years. The idea here is that if you are good enough to have made the finals at state for the past 4 years, then you shouldn't be denied the opportunity to compete at state if you just happened to have had very tough competition at your section championship. This results in a number of additional kids making the state meet. For example, 2 years ago, 7 boy pole vaulters qualified out of our section. Auto qual marks have to be achieved at the section championship meet.
It is extremely difficult to qualify for the CIF meet from most of the sections. In my section, there are somewhere between 500 and 3000 kids who compete in a given event. Of those 3000 kids, only 3 advance to state.
Each section has the autonomy to hold it's championships as it sees fit. My section has a divisional championship, where schools compete against like sized schools for the title of section team champion. To get to the divisional meet, you have to qualify out of your league meet.
So, most post seasons look like this
-Week 1: League finals. There may be a trials meet for some leagues as well which would take place earlier in the week. Depending on your league, you need to be in the top 3-6 to advance to the next round.
- Week 2: Divisional Trials and Divisional Finals: For my section these meets were either Tue/Fri or Wed/Sat, depending on what division you are in. Depending on your division, you need to be in the top 5-8 to advance
- Week 3: Section "Masters Meet" Trials and Finals. These meets were Fri/Sat in my section until this year, where we have eliminated the trials meet. You need to be in the top 3 here, unless you hit an at large mark.
- Week 4: State Trials and Finals: Once again, Fri/Sat.
Bear in mind, I described my section's process. Other sections have different versions. Our section is the second largest in the state, so ours was a little more difficult
and the SJS Section changed everything this year and it's now even more confusing then what you laid out here. On your "week 1" that changes based on what division your league is. In D1 we get 8 or 10 per league that advance.
At least we have now eliminated all the weekday meets once you are past league for the most part.
California is divided into 10 sections. Each section gets to send a pre-determined number of athletes to the state meet. Larger sections get to send more athletes than smaller sections. My section, The Sac-Joaquin, gets 3 slots. I believe that the total number of qualifiers is 27. However, the state also has "at large" marks. These marks are the average of the 9th place finisher over the past 4 years. The idea here is that if you are good enough to have made the finals at state for the past 4 years, then you shouldn't be denied the opportunity to compete at state if you just happened to have had very tough competition at your section championship. This results in a number of additional kids making the state meet. For example, 2 years ago, 7 boy pole vaulters qualified out of our section. Auto qual marks have to be achieved at the section championship meet.
It is extremely difficult to qualify for the CIF meet from most of the sections. In my section, there are somewhere between 500 and 3000 kids who compete in a given event. Of those 3000 kids, only 3 advance to state.
Each section has the autonomy to hold it's championships as it sees fit. My section has a divisional championship, where schools compete against like sized schools for the title of section team champion. To get to the divisional meet, you have to qualify out of your league meet.
So, most post seasons look like this
-Week 1: League finals. There may be a trials meet for some leagues as well which would take place earlier in the week. Depending on your league, you need to be in the top 3-6 to advance to the next round.
- Week 2: Divisional Trials and Divisional Finals: For my section these meets were either Tue/Fri or Wed/Sat, depending on what division you are in. Depending on your division, you need to be in the top 5-8 to advance
- Week 3: Section "Masters Meet" Trials and Finals. These meets were Fri/Sat in my section until this year, where we have eliminated the trials meet. You need to be in the top 3 here, unless you hit an at large mark.
- Week 4: State Trials and Finals: Once again, Fri/Sat.
Bear in mind, I described my section's process. Other sections have different versions. Our section is the second largest in the state, so ours was a little more difficult
and the SJS Section changed everything this year and it's now even more confusing then what you laid out here. On your "week 1" that changes based on what division your league is. In D1 we get 8 or 10 per league that advance.
At least we have now eliminated all the weekday meets once you are past league for the most part.
Haha. Yeah, I was on the committee that wrote the qualification procedure. The mandate was to:
1. Eliminate the need for Masters Trials by having a meet where everyone raced/jumped/threw under the same conditions at the same time for their divisional championshp AND
2. Try to create a meet where you can have basically 5 championship meets in one on the same day.
There was no way we were going to get 10 heats of the 3200 and 10 heats of the 4x8 to fit into the Divisional finals meets being held all on the same day, so we put those at the trials meets. 4x8 first event and 3200 last event of the day. It acually works out really well for teams that are distance heavy to split up the distance finals over 2 days. You're welcom ;)
I should add that the other consideration was to get the meets off of weekdays. Next year, expect all divisions to run their trials the saturday before divisional finals.
This year, too many leagues had already scheduled their league finals to make this happen. A couple of leagues already were on the saturday before divisional finals. My league was the Thursday before that, some leagues were the day before. Next year, the section will put out the post season schedule much earlier and the leagues will have to adjust.
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