the big way team sports police effort or competitiveness is you get yanked and subbed out, or benched next game. circling back to my last post, you have to have the numbers where you can be benched, lose a varsity spot for a week, not be brought to a meet for a week, or left off for state progression.
numbers and quality depth then matter. as well as consistency of disciplinary enforcement.
I don’t know how to coach anymore. I’ve been doing this for 20 years, but my new group of athletes just feels different. They’re not bad—in fact, they’re probably some of the kindest, most respectful kids I’ve ever worked with. They don’t get into trouble, they don’t bicker or do the stupid, inane things I remember from 15 years ago. There’s no fighting, no name-calling, none of that. And yet, I feel more disconnected than I ever have—certainly more than I did even five years ago. I give them a roadmap for the season—explain the workouts, the purpose behind each one, how it all builds toward our goals. But they don’t seem to believe in it. Then they see something similar pop up on Instagram and suddenly it’s a revelation by reel. The same workout that yesterday seemed pointless, or dumb, or too easy, or too hard is now the ticket. It’s the same with lifting. They’ll shrug at my plan and just go through the motions. Then they see run_strong_coach post a video doing split squats—and just like that, the exercise is “legit” again. I’ve spent all season telling them to push themselves and to take risks. It feels like blank stares. Then one of my guys shows me a reel from a college meet with motivational voiceover saying almost exactly what I’ve been preaching for months—and suddenly it clicks. He tells me he wants to be more aggressive in the middle mile, like it’s a brand-new idea. I’m not mad at them. Honestly, kids have always needed to find their own sources of belief and motivation. But man, it’s demoralizing. My words don’t carry the same weight anymore and the source of trust has changed. I haven’t caught up at all. I’m trying to meet them where they are, but everything feels like it has to be a performance or commercial. I can sense that some of the old school mentality is what some of these kids are craving. In fact, all the sudden religion is resonating with them in ways I never thought was coming back. But I haven’t figured how to communicate with them—to be performative rather than just genuine. I’m not a bad coach. I had some amazing success with teams and individuals. But I can feel myself slipping faster than I ever thought I would. Maybe I’m just old now.
You sound like a great coach, please stay with it. It sucks that the message is not being received, because these kids are missing out on one of the best experiences of their lives. I’m not sure too many of us would want to take the Hot Tub Time Machine back to high school, but man, I would give anything to feel the magic of being a young guy on a cross country team believing in himself, his team and above all, his coach. One of the best things my old coach ever did was have us pause during a late fall workout, up on a hill. He told us to look around and take this day in, every bit of it, and remember it as clearly as we could. Because these days disappear way too fast and we’ll want to come back to them forever. Today, the kids would be like, "OK, hold on, let me get my phone." Not quite the same.
I don’t know how to coach anymore. I’ve been doing this for 20 years, but my new group of athletes just feels different. They’re not bad—in fact, they’re probably some of the kindest, most respectful kids I’ve ever worked with. They don’t get into trouble, they don’t bicker or do the stupid, inane things I remember from 15 years ago. There’s no fighting, no name-calling, none of that. And yet, I feel more disconnected than I ever have—certainly more than I did even five years ago. I give them a roadmap for the season—explain the workouts, the purpose behind each one, how it all builds toward our goals. But they don’t seem to believe in it. Then they see something similar pop up on Instagram and suddenly it’s a revelation by reel. The same workout that yesterday seemed pointless, or dumb, or too easy, or too hard is now the ticket. It’s the same with lifting. They’ll shrug at my plan and just go through the motions. Then they see run_strong_coach post a video doing split squats—and just like that, the exercise is “legit” again. I’ve spent all season telling them to push themselves and to take risks. It feels like blank stares. Then one of my guys shows me a reel from a college meet with motivational voiceover saying almost exactly what I’ve been preaching for months—and suddenly it clicks. He tells me he wants to be more aggressive in the middle mile, like it’s a brand-new idea. I’m not mad at them. Honestly, kids have always needed to find their own sources of belief and motivation. But man, it’s demoralizing. My words don’t carry the same weight anymore and the source of trust has changed. I haven’t caught up at all. I’m trying to meet them where they are, but everything feels like it has to be a performance or commercial. I can sense that some of the old school mentality is what some of these kids are craving. In fact, all the sudden religion is resonating with them in ways I never thought was coming back. But I haven’t figured how to communicate with them—to be performative rather than just genuine. I’m not a bad coach. I had some amazing success with teams and individuals. But I can feel myself slipping faster than I ever thought I would. Maybe I’m just old now.
I coached successfully also, right up to the day that I walked away. You never mentioned the parents or other adults in the system. It's likely they take you for granted. The kids are getting the message from a culture that doesn't just include "TwitBook on the FacePhone".
The programs have collapsed miserably since I left. I feel bad that the kids aren't having more succeeds. But life is short and I am surprised at how little I miss coaching. Knowing the sport and sharing the knowledge / leadership can be a slow, grinding transition from passion to obligation.
I now have that amount of time in the day for running myself again - and I love it.
Maybe that's my whole point of the thread. It used to feel so easy and obvious to me how to do the basics. The hard stuff was figuring out what the proper consequences were for doing something egregious. I always liked having maybe 5 team rules at maximum. General principles that covered everything. Does bringing your phone to a workout violate one of these general rules? Not specifically--especially in their mind. I feel like I have to define everything now. This is allowed, this isn't--it feels so in the weeds.
I have this same problem as well. If I don't have a highly specific rule that covers something, the kids don't understand. I want to be more hands off, but it's not working with this generation. They seem to need way more structure than past groups.
In terms of communicating, I have way more success when I speak with my athletes one on one. When I'm talking "at" them as a group they tune me out in the same ways you describe.
I don’t know how to coach anymore. I’ve been doing this for 20 years, but my new group of athletes just feels different. They’re not bad—in fact, they’re probably some of the kindest, most respectful kids I’ve ever worked with. They don’t get into trouble, they don’t bicker or do the stupid, inane things I remember from 15 years ago. There’s no fighting, no name-calling, none of that. And yet, I feel more disconnected than I ever have—certainly more than I did even five years ago. I give them a roadmap for the season—explain the workouts, the purpose behind each one, how it all builds toward our goals. But they don’t seem to believe in it. Then they see something similar pop up on Instagram and suddenly it’s a revelation by reel. The same workout that yesterday seemed pointless, or dumb, or too easy, or too hard is now the ticket. It’s the same with lifting. They’ll shrug at my plan and just go through the motions. Then they see run_strong_coach post a video doing split squats—and just like that, the exercise is “legit” again. I’ve spent all season telling them to push themselves and to take risks. It feels like blank stares. Then one of my guys shows me a reel from a college meet with motivational voiceover saying almost exactly what I’ve been preaching for months—and suddenly it clicks. He tells me he wants to be more aggressive in the middle mile, like it’s a brand-new idea. I’m not mad at them. Honestly, kids have always needed to find their own sources of belief and motivation. But man, it’s demoralizing. My words don’t carry the same weight anymore and the source of trust has changed. I haven’t caught up at all. I’m trying to meet them where they are, but everything feels like it has to be a performance or commercial. I can sense that some of the old school mentality is what some of these kids are craving. In fact, all the sudden religion is resonating with them in ways I never thought was coming back. But I haven’t figured how to communicate with them—to be performative rather than just genuine. I’m not a bad coach. I had some amazing success with teams and individuals. But I can feel myself slipping faster than I ever thought I would. Maybe I’m just old now.
You sound like a great coach, please stay with it. It sucks that the message is not being received, because these kids are missing out on one of the best experiences of their lives. I’m not sure too many of us would want to take the Hot Tub Time Machine back to high school, but man, I would give anything to feel the magic of being a young guy on a cross country team believing in himself, his team and above all, his coach. One of the best things my old coach ever did was have us pause during a late fall workout, up on a hill. He told us to look around and take this day in, every bit of it, and remember it as clearly as we could. Because these days disappear way too fast and we’ll want to come back to them forever. Today, the kids would be like, "OK, hold on, let me get my phone." Not quite the same.
No coach would let his runners bring phones to practice. I had a college coach that would share his philosophies with us and we would laugh about it when he wasn’t around. Time does pass quickly and living in the past won’t change that.
I dont really have issues with any of the social media stuff. Probably my biggest frustrations are:
-lots of competition for athletes, there are many more sport choices than there were when I ran in HS. We're all trying to get the same kid, and xc is usually on the bottom of the list, so I end up with kids that aren't athletic enough for soccer, field hockey, flag football, etc.. It's pretty easy to decide which kid should be doing either football or xc, not so much with travel soccer.
-kids have many many many commitments, school, xc, drama, band, part time jobs, church groups, boy scouts, academic clubs.. they do it ALL.
Luckily, I haven't been directly contradicted with Insta influencers.
I agree with JustMe22 You are the coach, you got this, I love this post because with all of us here we can help each other.... someone here has the answers for us.... Let's Go! The Mike Smith interview on The Running Effect Podcast is great and may offer something for you and your guys. So many U.S. kids are running so fast... I'm seeing if we connect and collaborate we can all elevate and do big things with these kids
I don’t know how to coach anymore. I’ve been doing this for 20 years, but my new group of athletes just feels different. They’re not bad—in fact, they’re probably some of the kindest, most respectful kids I’ve ever worked with. They don’t get into trouble, they don’t bicker or do the stupid, inane things I remember from 15 years ago. There’s no fighting, no name-calling, none of that. And yet, I feel more disconnected than I ever have—certainly more than I did even five years ago. I give them a roadmap for the season—explain the workouts, the purpose behind each one, how it all builds toward our goals. But they don’t seem to believe in it. Then they see something similar pop up on Instagram and suddenly it’s a revelation by reel. The same workout that yesterday seemed pointless, or dumb, or too easy, or too hard is now the ticket. It’s the same with lifting. They’ll shrug at my plan and just go through the motions. Then they see run_strong_coach post a video doing split squats—and just like that, the exercise is “legit” again. I’ve spent all season telling them to push themselves and to take risks. It feels like blank stares. Then one of my guys shows me a reel from a college meet with motivational voiceover saying almost exactly what I’ve been preaching for months—and suddenly it clicks. He tells me he wants to be more aggressive in the middle mile, like it’s a brand-new idea. I’m not mad at them. Honestly, kids have always needed to find their own sources of belief and motivation. But man, it’s demoralizing. My words don’t carry the same weight anymore and the source of trust has changed. I haven’t caught up at all. I’m trying to meet them where they are, but everything feels like it has to be a performance or commercial. I can sense that some of the old school mentality is what some of these kids are craving. In fact, all the sudden religion is resonating with them in ways I never thought was coming back. But I haven’t figured how to communicate with them—to be performative rather than just genuine. I’m not a bad coach. I had some amazing success with teams and individuals. But I can feel myself slipping faster than I ever thought I would. Maybe I’m just old now.
Felt the same way the past couple of years. I have kept the same style of coaching like you have, but what worked for me to build the culture was that I treat every race JV-> V with the same mentality and excitement. What I have noticed that when I do that it trickles down to the boys, then most importantly the parents. I bring them all together post race (each individual race) to talk about what went well and what we can work on next week. I think the fact that I keep showing up excited is the trick. Do I have a state qualifying team? Nope, but I have some runners that were a couple spots from qualifying. We had so many JV runners traveling to the meet to cheer on the team and sprint around the course on a cold rainy day. On day 1 of practice I told them that whatever happens this season it is not just an individual result, everything is a team result, so if one person went to the state meet we would pay whatever the bus cost is to get the entire group of 45 on the coach bus. Don’t give up hope! I almost did last year, and this year I focused on team culture and working with my coaching staff (lucky to have 4 total xc coaches through assistants and volunteers) to split the workout groups so each ability level gets the same focus from their assigned coach for that workout. Also (last thing) we switch which coach is working with the groups each day. That way the boys of a lower ability don’t feel they are just there for a jog. Hope that helps. Team culture is what I built, and that helped get the buy in.
There is too much information out there. Most of it bad.
I had a professional runner at my practice a few years ago. Without prompting her she actually said all the things I had been telling the team for years. To be honest, I don’t think it sunk in.
Most of my top runners were going to some creepy local private coach for advice and he had the parents all wrapped up in his bs also.
I hung up my clipboard and just coach individuals now.
I'm a high school coach. Some kids run with phones, some with no watch. Weight room can be the most frustrating part of the week. But they are working. We have to cede control to them - yes, you can explain to them the purpose of the workout, etc. But they have to learn for themselves, and a lot of learning is now done through social media. So beat them to the punch, send out short reels from others that emphasize your point. I don't get a ton of questions from kids about training, but then I hear them randomly talking about ATP and 32/2. They are thinking. Today's breakthrough was about not taking big breaks between seasons. The kids were like, why should I take two weeks off and lose fitness! The little wins...
So I view this frustration as an intellectual challenge - why shouldn't my teaching/communication style change and adapt?
Regarding kids and competitiveness. Every couple of weeks we do a sprint workout that ends with some 40's pretty close to all out. I'll pit kids against each other. See who talks trash and wants to beat somebody. Most of them do in that scenario - figure out a way to get them to do it on race day against non-teammates.
the big way team sports police effort or competitiveness is you get yanked and subbed out, or benched next game. circling back to my last post, you have to have the numbers where you can be benched, lose a varsity spot for a week, not be brought to a meet for a week, or left off for state progression.
numbers and quality depth then matter. as well as consistency of disciplinary enforcement.
That might be a little extreme, but kids take the major team sports seriously and I don’t understand why the distance runners need group hugs, coddling and life advice. It’s human nature for teenage boys to be competitive and to want to be good at a sport. There’s tremendous depth in HS distance running so maybe the problems described in this thread are applicable to only second tier runners.
I don't know. I feel like the beginning of my teaching and coaching careers was a bit of a fight to get the ball rolling and gain some credibility. You seem to have already accomplished that.
From there, it's time to be the adult in the room. Have team discussions about what is acceptable and expected. If kids fall short (behaviorally, not physically) pull them aside and rip them. If they want to quit then they should, but you can't allow athletes with poor attitudes or that actively try to supplant you to permeate your program.
Give them credit for successes, take the blame for failures, and keep a high standard for everyone - even the slowest kids.
No coach would let his runners bring phones to practice. I had a college coach that would share his philosophies with us and we would laugh about it when he wasn’t around. Time does pass quickly and living in the past won’t change that.
Bringing them us one thing. Looking at them is another. For obvious safety reasons, we as coaches really cant prevent students or runners from having a phone somewhere in their possession. A school can prevent classroom usage, but they cant, under the law, prohibit possession of a phone.
The phone intervals has already happened... I even offered to give a kid my old watch to use indefinitely. He said his much prefers his phone. You say you put a stop to it, which is great. But to me, that feels like micromanaging. I've always been a more hands off coach, and it's worked for me. I guess I took it for granted.
Maybe that's my whole point of the thread. It used to feel so easy and obvious to me how to do the basics. The hard stuff was figuring out what the proper consequences were for doing something egregious. I always liked having maybe 5 team rules at maximum. General principles that covered everything. Does bringing your phone to a workout violate one of these general rules? Not specifically--especially in their mind. I feel like I have to define everything now. This is allowed, this isn't--it feels so in the weeds.
Oh they can bring a phone, I even don't care if they put buds in and leave the phone at the s/f. But allowing them to run with a .5 pound smartphone in one hand is without question altering gait and arm swing. You might consider that not micromanaging. Being on the phone or carrying a large object in one hand during intervals is an easy no-no to me.
One thing that has freed me up emotionally is just saying yes to anyone who keeps asking to run less and take reps off or wants to go home. Why keep trying to change them? ( no, the marines won't be hiring me anytime soon) Im happy to say the super motivated runner (fastest ones and slow ones that want PRs) still exists! They will do anything to get better, they listen, they lift, and puke at the finish. They still exist. Now cross training has a bit more of an ask.
This post was edited 14 minutes after it was posted.
I had a junior return to our team this year. As a sophomore last year, he ran about 22 minutes. Then quit track and I didn't see him at any practices over the summer. Showed up day 1 mandatory practice a new runner. Running with kids who had PRs in the 18:00-18:30 range.
When I asked him what he had been doing over the summer. He told me he had been "zone 2 training". When I looked at his Strava he was running about 55-60 miles a week with 15 mile long runs at 9:30-10:00 pace. To the surprise of no one he burned out and picked up an overuse injury about halfway through the season.
I don’t know how to coach anymore. I’ve been doing this for 20 years, but my new group of athletes just feels different. They’re not bad—in fact, they’re probably some of the kindest, most respectful kids I’ve ever worked with. They don’t get into trouble, they don’t bicker or do the stupid, inane things I remember from 15 years ago. There’s no fighting, no name-calling, none of that. And yet, I feel more disconnected than I ever have—certainly more than I did even five years ago. I give them a roadmap for the season—explain the workouts, the purpose behind each one, how it all builds toward our goals. But they don’t seem to believe in it. Then they see something similar pop up on Instagram and suddenly it’s a revelation by reel. The same workout that yesterday seemed pointless, or dumb, or too easy, or too hard is now the ticket. It’s the same with lifting. They’ll shrug at my plan and just go through the motions. Then they see run_strong_coach post a video doing split squats—and just like that, the exercise is “legit” again. I’ve spent all season telling them to push themselves and to take risks. It feels like blank stares. Then one of my guys shows me a reel from a college meet with motivational voiceover saying almost exactly what I’ve been preaching for months—and suddenly it clicks. He tells me he wants to be more aggressive in the middle mile, like it’s a brand-new idea. I’m not mad at them. Honestly, kids have always needed to find their own sources of belief and motivation. But man, it’s demoralizing. My words don’t carry the same weight anymore and the source of trust has changed. I haven’t caught up at all. I’m trying to meet them where they are, but everything feels like it has to be a performance or commercial. I can sense that some of the old school mentality is what some of these kids are craving. In fact, all the sudden religion is resonating with them in ways I never thought was coming back. But I haven’t figured how to communicate with them—to be performative rather than just genuine. I’m not a bad coach. I had some amazing success with teams and individuals. But I can feel myself slipping faster than I ever thought I would. Maybe I’m just old now.
this is a generation of cognitive dissonance, they don't believe anything really, everything is sus or fake, across the board, which it pretty much is. they know the music is faked, the bots faking the narrative, the fake websites with pictures, the AI bullcrap, their friends construct these crazy self fake images on social, etc. etc.
so they actually are adapting to the world they are in, correctly, but there is over correction, and tuning out everything isn't the optimal solution. they need to be pointed to authentic sources. so they develop a cognitive dissonance.
this nice stuff, is a mixture of get along least work apathy, patronizing, confusion, covertness, and empathy gone wrong. with result there is nothing there if you distil it down.
approach it like that, research how to break through the mind set with come back real life lessons, where cause and effect is the proof, self observation, and get them back on planet earth. the vibes of forest and mountain running and isolated camps, that changes the psyche.
then you will have really contributed, in a very useful way. once you realize what you're up against, that may turn the lights on and motivate a challenge.
the world is starving for forces to stability of mind, salt of the earth. we all can be that solid person, with sincerity, common sense and strength to back our mate in the worst of weather, but we don't do it. we're too busy and distracted and whatnot.
pain is a good teacher and traumatizer, depending on how you use it. its a great tool.
I didn’t read all the replies but consider this a +1 on just encouraging them and eventually trying to demand that they leave their phones behind. Some might hate you at first and they’ll probably sprint right to their phone but they’ll eventually thank you. Same would be true for adults.
Weird thread imo. The bottom line is that they are eventually getting the point. Kids usually need to hear the same stuff several times before it sticks. The fact that they heard it from you first might be the reason they think the social media stuff is so cool.
Also, you mention that these kids seems to be wonderful people. To me, that's a sign that you are continuing to improve as a coach. A great high school coach would rather have a team of slow kids who become successful adults than a team of champions who grow up to be losers. I think you deserve to take some of the credit for these kids being so kind and respectful.