Out of character comment by Steve Scott

Once again, it's tantamount to exporting our top hockey players to Ghana and having them win an Olympic gold. It's contrived, disingenous, and somewhat fraudulent. Steve Scott's comments are not out of line and not racist. He didn't say he had a problem with immigration. Most people feel the same way he does. Having a Lagat or a Meb break the American record just isn't quite as compelling if Webb or Ritz were to do it.

Great Post.

There are always at least two sides to an argument and you pose great questions.

What if 3 random 2:08 Kenyans join the US marathon ranks along with 2 2:09 Japanese. Now we might have only Meb (African Born - American) in the top 5 if you also factor in Khalid.

There are a lot of what if's and both sides could make solid arguments. Nothing is going to come from it though.

I think it is safe to assume the when a naturalized citizen breaks an American Record it is going to be looked at slightly different by the masses. The person that loses that record will also have a hard time not feeling like Steve Scott.

When a runner comes from the land of where almost all the great runners come, becomes a US citizen (A place where great runners usually don't come from) and takes your American record, that is a tough pill to swallow. If the notion that African's are genetically superior in terms of running abilities could be wiped from the face of the planet, Steve Scott might not feel the way he does. If Lagat was from Canada or from Italy or from Sweden, I don't think he would care. They are not know as a freak nation of runners. Maybe I am wrong, nah, more than likely I am.

Tear me apart.

You're point about the racial/genetic antipathy is a good one. It doesn't justify Scott's bias, but I think it goes a long way toward explaining it.

I think the bias is actually a prejudice, myself, but enough other people have said that.

Frankly, I think it's more impressive that a runner who WASN'T raised in the US, and if they're African, that generally means raised in a much poorer environment than most American runners, can excel. People from poorer nations that come here and run better than the majority are actually overcoming a handicap in terms of poverty. If, after working hard to get here, and working (training) hard here while they're waiting for their citizenship (legally, that is), they get a record, I'm more impressed than if a majority socio-economic class "born and raised here" American does it.

This makes sense to me. It's still a bit weird for me to see Lagat in a USA uni, after all those years when he ran for Kenya. It's not that he's a hired gun in the sense that Qatar literally hired people to run for them, but it still doesn't quite feel right. And it's not the same as guys like Meb and Abdi, who have always been American runners.

That said all of these "America for Americans" types and the guy who say they're tired of not getting to marginalize non-whites (that would be you, fedup et. al.) should go back to whatever cave they crawled out of.

Maybe lagat can help push Lukezic and Myers to the 3:50 mile barrier.

if the guy came on my team and broke my records, whether he was from overseas or a frosh coming in and breaking them, more power to him because they are made to be improved. it would bother me if he were a cocky arrogant prick from overseas and thought he was better than everyone. i wouldnt like it, but id just train harder to try and get it back instead of wasting time bitching and making issues about it.

the US has been behind for decades in distance running, not training hard enough, talking about burnout and all this other crap, not racing hard, etc. we are finally going in the right direction as more of a nation and that is a good thing, and whether it took those few overseas guys to come here, become citizens and kick our asses day in and day out in training and races, so be it...at least it happened. i dont think it would have been this way so sudden and so drastically without lagat in the Mid Distances with Webb, and KK coming over(even if hes had injury issues) and running a few 2 07s, even a 2 05, even Abdi Abdiraman kicking our asses on the roads and on the track even while being in the US for college. hey whatever it took it woke us up a little bit and I am not against it. none of those guys are arrogant pricks either, so I dont mind. no matter how many come from overseas it doesnt matter they will push us and teach us to do it day in day out, which is something we did NOT do before. and that being said, if we sent a few to kenya and they started running faster than some of their top guys, youd be happy so save the hypocrisy...

fedup wrote:

How about if all the Epopians and Kenyans become Americans and wipe all the records off the books. That wouldn't bother you? Where's your national pride?

Protectionism is for sissies and losers. If somebodys' faster than you, he's faster than you. If he becomes an American citizen, then he's a faster American than you.

If Toyotas are better than Chevies, they're better cars. If Toyota starts making them in Mississippi, then they're better American cars.

I would say that the only genuine americans are the native americans.

Outside of these people, America is a nation based on immigration and that includes people like Steve Scott and Bernard Lagat.

Thank you. The United States was built on immigration/integration and therefore, unlike many European/Asian countries, all ethnicities should be considered American.

Steve Scott needs to reconsider his citizenship if he doesn't like the system. We historically have had the most liberal immigration policy in the world; that puts us a step up in my book.

I'll root for my neighbor before someone from another county.

I'll root for someone from my county before I root for someone from another part of my state.

I'll root for someone from my state before I root for someone from another state.

I'll root for someone from my country before I root for someone from another country whom I don't care about.

I'll root for someone from another country whom I don't care about before I root for a rival to the USA.

I won't root for any rival to the USA.

In case of any ties, order of preference goes:

1. Originally born in country represented,

2. Is close to the same age as myself.

3. Didn't go to Notre Dame,

4. Speaks my language,

5. Looks like me,

6. Has an interesting background story.

--Some special factors can overrule some tie-breakers.

So, I'll root for Webb before Lagat, Scott before Lagat, Scott before Maree, Maree before Lagat, Lagat before Willis, Willis before Bekele, Bekele before a Cuban or Iranian, Scott before Lagat, Scott before Shay, Webb before Scott.

So according to that framework, I'm an anti-global, racist person who advocates genocide to the rest of the non-white, non-USA world. OR, I'm a person who roots for other people that I can identify myself with. I guess it just depends on your point of view.

I have to admit that Steve Scott just dropped off of my hero list. I didn't realize that he was a nationalistic xenophobe. Given his world travels and life experiences, I expect more from him. The more I have been around this planet, the more I realize what a farce nationality and citizenship are. We are citizens of Earth and until folks realize that Earth is getting "flatter" by the day, we will continue to flounder as a species.

Steve Scott's comment offended the hell out of me. When he used the second person to say, "when your record is being broken, you're hoping its a real Amurican that breaks it...." I wanted to kick him in the nut. I certainly don't have any national records, but if I did, I would be just as pissed to have them broken by somebody who was born here as by an immigrant----

Steve: BY USING THE SECOND PERSON, YOU INCLUDE ME IN YOUR XENOPHOBIC WORLDVIEW----I EXPECT AND APOLOGY!

FURTHERMORE, I HAVE DELETED YOU FROM MY SCREENSAVER!

Yes, esspecially with the "looks like" part.

This (Steve's opinion) is something that I don't agree with, but I understand and I realize that I am not in his position. It doesn't change my very high opinion of Steve Scott, it's just something that I don't see eye-to-eye on.

FYI -- you guys know that he's a friend of and huge Meb supporter, right?

A&M Full of Racists wrote:

Thank you. The United States was built on immigration/integration and therefore, unlike many European/Asian countries, all ethnicities should be considered American. .

That's all well and good. Maree's citizenship, who didn't establish the legal length of residency, was pushed through by the powers that be. He was a mercenary citizen at best. Not a nice man, he once threatened Carey Pinkowski "I'm going to get my gun and shoot you."

Today Sydney Maree is no longer an American citizen. He's the poster boy for convenience citizenship.

Apparently MNApologist doesn't know what xenophobia is. Scott's statement isn't xenophobic.

Is not allowing a foreign person citizen to become President xenophobic? No, it's not. Neither are Scott's statements. He's not showing undue fear of foreigners, he's just showing a preference for American born citizens. I agree, I like Lagat, but I'd rather see Webb get the record b/c he's been in the system longer. Lagat became great as a Kenyan and switched over. There is a difference.

stevescotttheone wrote:

I don't agree with the statement "you need to be born and raised here" to get a record.

Good for you, because Scott never said that. Prick.

I think people that are threatened by "new" Americans are either demonstrating their own insecurities about themselves and the supposed superiority of the American way of life, or are simply xenophobes.

If one wants America to be the best, then one should try to obtain as much talent as possible.

I find it hard to believe that people would prefer to have second-rate runners represent their country only because they look the same, or have been raised under the same conditions.

I understand that one would like role models that one can identify with (so as to suggest "if they can do it, so can I"), but one can have Lance or Alan Webb as a role model even if Geb decides to run for America.

To not allow the world's best runners to run for America, does not change the fact that those runners are faster than Americans - and it seems desperate and illogical to pretend otherwise.

Mtn Dew-

Denotation and Connotation---You must not have gotten to this part of 9th grade English yet.

Xenophobe is the perfectly chosen word although these words might fit as well: isolationist, bigot, apartheidist, or sectatian.

MN

MNApologist wrote:

Mtn Dew-

Denotation and Connotation---You must not have gotten to this part of 9th grade English yet.

Xenophobe is the perfectly chosen word although these words might fit as well: isolationist, bigot, apartheidist, or sectatian.

MN

Actually I have a Master's degree. Scott is a not a xenophobe, or if he is you can't tell from his statements posted in this thread.

Is this a parallel argument? -

Would anyone here be a little pissed if an exchange student from, say, England (to avoid the race card) came over during your senior year and beat you to win a state championship? This happened to me. I was a little peeved. The dude was good, kicked my butt, but in my mind I was still the best in my state.

Can someone who never went to school in New Hampshire come over and "visit" for a couple months and win a state championship from a "true" resident?

I don't think this situation is much different than the one Steve Scott addresses. He probably feels like I do (did).