BIG TEN 10k?????

slaps wrote:

he does probably rank as the top distance runner in that conference, even ahead of SOlinsky.

no friggin' way. Solinsky has been winning big races his entire career and is a complete beast. Olinger wins the conference 10k and is suddenly better than Solinsky? He may have the edge in the 10k, but anywhere 1500-5000m Solinsky would dominate.

slaps wrote:

And also Olingers 8:19 steeple from last year is probably (I'm giving a somewhat educated guess) worth at least 13:20 or 27:50) so he does probably rank as the top distance runner in that conference, even ahead of SOlinsky.

I am going to take an educated guess and say that the steeple is nowhere near as run by the best runners as the 5k or 10k are. The steeple is very deep at the top with all the Kenyans but falls off after that and only a few countries really have runners really going after it in that event. I would rank his 8:19 steeple as a 13:30 5k and a 28:00 - 28:10 10k. Still close to the times you suggested but different enough to separate him from several runners.

Maybe that's because the steeple requires athleticism.

No it doesn't.

It can help but it isn't required.

Where did Hoerr come from? Didn't he run 14:23 a couple weeks ago at Drake after a 29:54 at Mt. SAC? Nice job of stepping it up at Big 10s!

moss wrote:

No it doesn't.

It can help but it isn't required.

I haven't seen that many long distance shufflers who can handle 35 36" barriers weighing 180 lbs. each during their 3000 meter run. These people are the closest thing to an athlete distance running has.

Accidently hit post.

The whole thing about steeplers being athletes is stupid. You need some coordination but it is sort of like playing baseball. You don't have to be a great athlete to learn how to field a baseball or hit a ball. It takes practice, just like hurdling takes practice. Some might be more natural at going over hurdles as some are able to pick up fielding and hitting better, those are what I would consider Athletes. The simple act of being able to do one of those things doesn't make you an athlete though. There are some that have that extra something, talent, and can go far with it. In baseball it is superior hand eye coordination, strength and bat speed. The best steeplers, the Kenyans, are not great athletes. They are just fast s.o.b.'s that get over the barriers however they can. Put any of those guys on a basketball court or tell them to throw a baseball or football and you will laugh your butt off. After some time they will be able to get better at those things but a real athlete, in my mind, could pick it up right away and not look akward. There are several steeplers I know that are very good at their event on the US level but they are not what the majority would call athletic, including Olinger. It is not meant as a knock on those guys just my obseveration on what should be considered athleticism and what shouldn't.

great logic.

I'm sure Rob Gary MUCH prefers figuring out a way to compete against all these distance schools in the Big 10 with half as much sacholarship money and a bunch of 930 two milers in his top 10 during cross season. Throw in dealing with Russ Rodgers, and he really does have a much easier job than Schumacher!

moss:

yes, your logic is so...well, I don't know really what your logic is, except that it isn't logical.

I didn't say steeplers could throw a baseball or be NBA players, I said it takes great athleticism to run barriers in a distance event, surging, etc than it takes to shuffle around a track for 3.75, 13.5 or 27 laps. I think Olinger has shown that he is an above average 10k and 5k runner also. I think his accomplishments speak loud enough.

correction though, unless your Gabe Jennings, few people shuffle in the 1500..............

Just thought you guys might like to know that Brian has only done about three track workouts so far this year. I would say he is a very good runner. Also It is much more stressful on a coach if you only have a few of your runners doing well, as opposed to having a bunch of your runners not focused and a few who are. Brian will realy be ready to run in July!

legally blond wrote:

moss:

yes, your logic is so...well, I don't know really what your logic is, except that it isn't logical.

I didn't say steeplers could throw a baseball or be NBA players, I said it takes great athleticism to run barriers in a distance event, surging, etc than it takes to shuffle around a track for 3.75, 13.5 or 27 laps. I think Olinger has shown that he is an above average 10k and 5k runner also. I think his accomplishments speak loud enough.

I would be surprised if this yahoo "moss" has ever run a steeple. It is tremendously difficult. Most people accept that a 3k or 5k on the track is tough. Long enough to really be grueling, but not slow like a 10k. I think it is very hard. Throw in having to hurdle and water-jump off either leg and having to clear these things while in anaerobic agony and steer around other people ... well, you get the picture.

I was there at the meet last night and saw Bairu and it must have been Nelson up front. I recognized Tony Ford (I refuse to call him Antony) and Lockhart. They were a little back at that point. I wasn't sure who the OSU guy was when I looked at him, but I knew about the 8:19 steeple and the 13:45 indoor 5k by Olinger and figured it must be him, either that or the pace was slower than I thought and some other guy was having the race of his life.

Anyway, as it got around 15-18 laps in Bairu started pushing and (knowing about Bairu) I assumed he would start to drop everyone and cruise to a 28:50-29:00 or so.

As was stated, Olinger ran on Simon's shoulder for many laps and since I thought he was going to get dropped I didn't pay attention how many. I was actually watching Lockhart, Tony Ford, Nelson and Mazzocco more closely as I wanted to see if any of them coudl get under 29:00.

Then BAM! Olinger makes a move and has a good gap right away. They were lapping a lot of guys in the last 4 laps, and I thought maybe Simon was biding his time and was going to close the gap gradually over the last 2 laps, because it was managable at this point. But he didn't and the announcer (I think) said that he was on pace for a 28:45 with a lap to go. Or maybe he was saying that he was threatening the Big 10 record (of 28:45.xx) so that Olinger would know it. I couldn't tell as I was on the other side of the track.

All I know was that it was quite cold on the track (in the 40's) and reasonbly windy (although that track has decent protection) and it was "rainy" in that it rained before and after the race a lot. The track was wet in spots (puddles) also.

28:45 in what might be his first 10k is awesome.

Only other thing I noticed that was weird was how many guys were wearing spikes with litte-tiny heel wedges. Some of them you couldn't even see the midsole material from the side. The sole just wrapped around right up to the edge like a sprint spike. If I was running the 5k or the 10k on the track I would be sporting a thick heel wedge for comfort.

legally blond wrote:

If I was running the 5k or the 10k on the track I would be sporting a thick heel wedge for comfort.

Thats why you AREN'T running a 5k or 10k on the track. Let the elites do it.

wanna-be wrote:

legally blond wrote:

If I was running the 5k or the 10k on the track I would be sporting a thick heel wedge for comfort.

Thats why you AREN'T running a 5k or 10k on the track. Let the elites do it.

please don't credit me with the thick heel wedge comment, it was made by darkness, not I.

I would wear spikes, it's a track.

Thanks for the back-up darkness, concerning the steeple, a very difficult race indeed.

Agree. As good as Olinger is, he is not in Solinsky's league. Seriously, I am a huge Olinger fan and have always pulled for him, but come on... saying that he is the best Big Ten runner means that he is the best runner in the NATION, as Solinsky has definitely proven that he is one of, if not THE, best runner in the nation. If Olinger can run under 13:30 and 28:00, then Solinsky can run under 13:25 and 27:50.

Let's be for real here.

What is Solinsky's pr in the steeple? Has he been under 8 yet?

How can Bairu run a controlled victory in 29:20+ at NCAA XC (ran a team race until the latter portion), but only a little faster on the track while finishing 2nd? It's been like this the last 2 years.

I bet he was a better track 10K'er in November 2005, and November 2004, than in either of the following spring seasons.

It always amuses me when people start these threads about whose better than who? Last night Brian Olinger was the best 10k guy in the race....he won. His steeple p.r. makes him one of the fastest steeplers in the country let alone the Big 10. Solinsky ran a sub 4:00 min mile the other night, I watched B.O. work his butt off to get a 4:03 at Jesse Owens last week. Solinsky's times for 3000 and 5000 speak for themselves. No way you compare track to cross, you must never have ran either to do so. I loved the idea that Schumacher has a tougher job than Coach Gary, talk about not being logical. Everyone on the team is important and attempting to get the most out of each one of those kids is tough for any coach, at any level. The notion of one event making someone a "better athlete" than someone in any other track event...distance wise...is also a farce. Legally blonde since I know who you are, I also know you never ran a steeple (too old sorry) so I'm not sure where you get your ideas, having ran the steeple and having a 5k pr in the mid 14's and considering myself a decent "athlete" I think the steeple is harder for reasons that athleticism don't account for. I am a huge B.O. fan, I would say he is great steepler, not a great athlete. (And one hell of a nice kid)

ROR:

married to a steepler and coached by the former american record holder in the steeple - learned a lot about the steeple even though I never ran one. never said I ran a steeple - and I would never compare the women's barriers to the men's - that would be a joke. you are splitting hairs about what was said in terms of athleticism and running.