Full results, M/W, please!?!?
Full results, M/W, please!?!?
SoCal, agreed, those are my feeling also. But to stick to the issue.
4:06 indoor masters PR
*open race with 10-15 fast university guys
*no travel
*301m beautiful indoor track facility("home" track)
*nice training/racing build-up(4:08 earlier & a couple of 1:51/1:53 800's)
This weekend(predict-4:10)
*masters only race w/rabbit(s)?
*4-5hr air travel & 3hr time change
*200m track(not the greatest per Sarah)
*first race since Oct/Nov.& first track race since June?
The fact alone that it was a masters only race is probably worth the 9sec.(to my 4:15 "prediction"). I'm sorry but I saw it as a little ambitous and "bold" to call out 4:10 under those conditions and so I called it! That's only losing 1sec./400 to all the negaive factors above.
RobC, sure jump on. But I don't think he did run 4:05 last year and if he did I'm pretty sure it wasn't indoors.
TY, not a stalker, just an admirer. Hopefully this will be just fuel and you won't be offended. If you are,well, I'll buy you a big green(Weinhards) beer on St.Paddy's day. Cheers! (At least I was nice enough not to include the "getting older" factor into the equation.)
talk is cheap wrote:
SoCal, agreed, those are my feeling also. But to stick to the issue.
4:06 indoor masters PR
-> no. Young, Tony Club Northwest 4:05.51
*open race with 10-15 fast university guys
-> yes
*no travel
-> yes
*301m beautiful indoor track facility("home" track)
-> yes (307 meters)
*nice training/racing build-up(4:08 earlier & a couple of 1:51/1:53 800's)
-> no. first and only race indoors in 2005
o.k. so my memories not so good...I did say I was 40+ right!
My quick search found(all indoors and certainly no "duds");
02/02/2003-1:53.89
01/31/2004-4:07.14
02/14/2004-4:06.39-I thought this was the indooe PR
1/29/2005-4:08.38
2/12/2005-8:17.69
02/12/2005-1:56.55
Can't find the 4:05.51 but that does ring a bell. I'm sure NWM will straighten us all out!
[quote]talk is cheap wrote:
SoCal, agreed, those are my feeling also. But to stick to the issue.
quote]
All right, I'll "stick to the issue":
1) 4:10 isn't fast for Tony, not even for an opening indoor race; he usually runs faster. He probably thought he was going to run sub 4:10 but eased up on the prediction so that he wouldn't have to hear exactly this sort of garbage afterwards.
2) Tony's a front runner, who has solo time-trialed a 3:47.2 1500 as a masters. He doesn't need open runners to lead him through a fast time.
3) Tony's set masters track records flying across the country into different time zones early in the season.
4) Tony's workouts are run at such a high level (due to his ability to recover) that "early season" doesn't mean the same thing it does for us other masters. He's good to go out of the gate.
5) Confidence is a big part of Tony's ability. The confidence it takes to predict 4:10 is the same confidence that allows him to diligently pursue his unreal training routine during the long months of the off-season (because he confidently assumes it will pay off) and then fly across the country to race all comers. Telling him that he should "let his races do the talking" is in essence telling him to change who he is. His predictions are usually right on the money, based on workouts and his own self-confidence.
Let's stick to the issue: "Talk is Cheap" as a handle is a slap at Tony. You can talk about being an admirer, but you're really just trying to grab a little pat on the back for yourself ... "See, listen to me next time, Tony, I know better." You even suggest that this might be some "fuel" for Tony, as if his arduous training program, his top-level coaching, and his strong psychological focus were somehow lacking the final key ingredient: your feedback.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I completely agree that Tony set himself up for your response by posting a prediction, and that you have every right to now call him on it.
But that doesn't mean you're right. And since you've now gone very public with your reasoning, you're just as open a target as Tony was with his prediction.
Look, lots of athletes make predictions. It's part of what competitive people do. Some don't, but that isn't the rule; it's just one road. One setback doesn't make Tony wrong and you right.
Okay, was that sticking to the point?
SoCalPete wrote:
Look, lots of athletes make predictions. It's part of what competitive people do.
Public predictions should be left to those in the public's eye. If ElG, Geb, or Bekele make a prediction, we notice. If someone qualifying their prediction with catagories such as "over 40 years old", "with sciatic", or "wearing a blue singlet", all but the 60 people who are also in that category laugh that someone is trying to glorify their effort. This guy is absolutely amazing compared to others his age, but let's not forget we are talking "age-group" running. Let your times do the talking. They stand pretty tall alone without trying to make it something it is not.
Public predictions should be left to those in the public's eye. They stand pretty tall alone without trying to make it something it is not.[/quote]
why? your reason doesn't work for tony young...for me maybe.
i've run a 4:32 mile as a master...to predict that i'd run 4:10 is definitely BOLD...(as the other poster indicated for tony)...as socalpete referenced (in the long list earlier) his prediction was conservative given his previous accomplishments.
tony has run faster than 4:10 many times; why not make a prediction to run at least that fast? why should you or anyone care that he makes one?
I think that TY is going to laugh that anyone cares what his "prediction" was. His season really begins no earlier than next Saturday (college meet) from what I can tell, having talked to him last week. This NY trip was just going to be a fun "rustbuster".
Hell, there were probably Letsrun posters giving last ritres to Cragg's career a few weeks ago when he lost to Ritz by a minute in XC.
Marisa Hanson 5:02.69 42 Pleasant Valley, NY
Leslie Chaplin-Swann 5:16.74 47 McDonough, GA
Mary Grene 5:17.28 42 Andover, KS
Sarah Stiner 5:20.22 45 Trumansburg, NY
Mary Beth Romagnoli 5:22.14 36 Cazenovia, NY
Murphee Hayes-Falls 5:25.21 32 Marathon, NY
Agathe Nicholson 5:27.94 45 Kingston, NY
Becky Heuer 5:34.26 41 Orchard Park, NY
Suzanne Myette 5:36.43 48 Endicott, NY
Karen Millson 5:36.72 43 Kingston, NY
Lynn O’Malley 5:41.08 44 Odessa, ON
Carolyn Smith-Hanna 5:43.75 55 Pittsford, NY
MEN 40-49 ELITE (12:45 PM)
Tony Young 4:20.72 43 Redmond, WA
Mike Egle 4:33.03 44 Des Plaines, IL
Gladstone Jones 4:35.12 42 New York, NY
Jim Derick 4:35.29 40 Big Flats, NY
Tom Dalton 4:35.77 47 Schenectady, NY
Mike Trunkes 4:46.61 43 New Paltz, NY
Marty Doherty 4:46.61 42 West Milford, NJ
Tony has a wonderful sense of humor, we all hung out and had afew post race bevvies after the fact, he has a healthy approach to our sport and does not get wrapped around the axle.The first female was amazing and unchallenged, thats a real story 5:02 on a not especially hard track WOW! I think this may be only her second indoor mile following on the heels of a 5:03 at the Armory. I have my work cut out for me in the mile this year lots of great women to compete with/against!!!!!
Het Sarah, where did you get those results (looking for over-50's)?
Man, that woman is cruisin'- she beat Mary Grene by 15 sec.! What's her story?
I just realized your last name is now Stiner...very good job for the first step on the comeback trail!
Wow, you can even read mind and tell me what I intended. Thats amazing!
"sticking to the issue" was intended to mean the warm fuzz comradery of masters running has nothing to do with the debate over making predictions & results
"talk is cheap" is intended to point out what happens all too often in the sub WR setting running world.
You're right about one thing though, you're not TRYING to be a jerk!
talk is cheap - you are an absolute fool who has brought negativity to this thread for no apparent reason. Please go back to the Ritz & Webb bashing threads where you usually hang out.
Hey, I didn't realize there was an over/under wager going on my performance (or lack thereof) this past weekend. Pretty cool!
For the record, I had all the intentions of "debuting" with a lot quicker time than this, but as I am finding with this age stuff that just because the mind is into it, the body sometimes lags a bit. I asked the rabbit (Scott) to get us into a :31 second rhythm and I would see how I felt at the 800/1000. When the first 800 was a high 2:06 and I felt blah, I sensed a bad day coming. Sorry to dissappoint those that anticipated something quicker (especially myself). I will just get back on the bike and try again, and again, and again.
My 4:05.51 came early last March at UW, should be in decent shape by then this time around too.
Thanks again Tom (Hartshorne) for inviting me to your neck of the woods. It was a great weekend.
tony
barton hall track is very dead, very flat, and very slow.
the wonderful atmosphere of the event can not make up for that fact.
tony's time is actually spectacular on that surface.
As I might add is Marisa Hanson's stellar 5:02... Tony you ran well and the best is ahead :O)
Women set records, men slower than expected at master's Hartshorne Mile
By DIANE SHERRER
Special to The Journal
ITHACA — An international field of the world's best masters runners competed Saturday at the 39th annual Hartshorne Memorial Masters Mile held on the Barton Hall track at Cornell University, and as anticipated, a pair of records were set in the elite women's race, including a pending world mark for women 55 to 59 years old.
In the elite women's race, Marisa Hanson, 42, of Pleasant Valley, N.Y.,
.......... see link
RobC wrote:
He ran 4:05 last year. How the heck is predicting 4:10 bold??? Get a clue.
I did not even see him predict sub 4:10.
But had he predicted it anywhere in my vincinity I would've bet him a beer against.
Had he known the typical conditions at Hartshorne he would not have predicted a sub 4:10.
It's a morning race, not crowd supported, and there is no competition for him to race against(unlike some of his other nice runs under 4:10)
The guy certainly has more sub 4:10 races in him, but it's tough to run at that speed every time out.
The Hartshorne is good for many, many reasons other than racing to fast times. It really is one of the few event that focuses on Master-Miling in ALL the age groups and ALL levels of ability. If you can make the race, make it, the race, the banquet, the socializing is a very unique and fantastic experience.
But, whoever the fan is that scrutinized the results, I say let him. And he is probably right that Sarah's responses are not exactly impartial and objective (she is simply too nice to not always see the "pie in the sky.)
It's nice that people are paying attention to our little niche and that it is treated like any other sport, with praise and civil critique.
Ouch ... guess I touched a nerve (okay, I purposely stuck a needle in it).
Look, didn't mean to cross the line and go after you. I disagreed with your reasoning and felt that it unfair to use a single race to suggest Tony made a mistake in predicting a faster time. I'll stick to that, but it's not fair if I made it personal. My bad. I apologize.
This is all just supposed to be fun for us old guys, anyway!