Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 2/6/22

notarobot - hard to say on the coach, coming from the shorter race background you would probably have a better idea of 800 training than many of us. If you can find the right person it might be worth it. I would only trust a former 800 runner or a coach who has worked with 800 runners. If statfanatic still lurks maybe he can help

Stone - Good news about the treadmill.

darkwave - Thanks for the update on the leg saga

dr crusher - Solid LR, I did my first (and only) real LR the week prior and they certainly can drag on if your not used to it yet.

dw/RS - Des Linden's commentary has been superb...have been enjoying it. I like her slight awkwardness, too...shows she is a normal person.

Two weeks until conference! Raced another 800 and paced a 5000 this weekend, meet was alright but not great. Excited to race my first 3k of the season next weekend! May also do another event, but as of right now the plan for conference is to run the 800 rounds and 1200 leg of DMR as well as one more.

Mon - 3 WU/CD, 3 x 500 w/ 4 min rec. (1:11-1:11-1:13)

Tues - 3.5 WU/CD, 5 x 200 2/ 2:30 rec. (avg 25.7)

Wed - 5 miles @ 7:24

Thurs - off

Fri - 1.8 WU/CD, 1200m of 5k in 3:16 (felt really relaxed and comfortable)

Sat - 3.5 WU/CD, 800 race in 1:57 (58-59)

Sun - off

Miles: too short to count

Race Recap

800 - 1:57.1 (28.9-28.2-29.6-30.3)

Race was frustrating to say the least, got jostled and cut off straight to last and had to make two big moves up on laps 2 &3, just didn't have anything to finish with. Felt 10x better than the first time I ran 1:57 and I PR'd by .3 of a second so I will take that. Just wish I hadn't gotten cut off multiple times.

3k next week looking to run close to 8:30 maybe even under if possible.

Sub 6:00 wrote:

Upcoming plans

GW Bday Marathon (2/20)

Planned marathon just got their permit revoked because of COVID case counts. I really did not think we were still cancelling relatively small, diffuse, outdoor events at this stage in the game. Ack!

Sub 6:00 wrote:

Sub 6:00 wrote:

Upcoming plans

GW Bday Marathon (2/20)

Planned marathon just got their permit revoked because of COVID case counts. I really did not think we were still cancelling relatively small, diffuse, outdoor events at this stage in the game. Ack!

You should come up north and run Hyannis in late Feb. Good, fast course and weather will hopefully be OK.

Sub 6:00 wrote:Planned marathon just got their permit revoked because of COVID case counts. I really did not think we were still cancelling relatively small, diffuse, outdoor events at this stage in the game. Ack!

I guess they were expecting many 65+ year-old, overweight, immunocompromised, unvaccinated runners with underlying health issues to be huddled together at the starting line this year.

Sub 6:00 wrote:

Sub 6:00 wrote:

Upcoming plans

GW Bday Marathon (2/20)

Planned marathon just got their permit revoked because of COVID case counts. I really did not think we were still cancelling relatively small, diffuse, outdoor events at this stage in the game. Ack!

I am sorry - that really sucks and I can't believe that happened.

Very sorry to hear this, Sub 6:00...and surprised to hear it, too.

outsiderunner wrote:Very sorry to hear this, Sub 6:00...

It's very disappointing, no doubt, as you can attest from personal experience! I hope he can find a substitute race, if he's so inclined.

BTW, thank you for the kind words regarding my somewhat crazy marathon training philosophy. Obviously, a superior approach includes varied paces, more mileage, etc. But, when trying to "get the most from the least," long runs plus rest/recovery are key for marathon prep.

Presently, my knees limit training to about 20 mpw. So, working within that constraint, 15+5 plus five rest days, or a single 20-mile run and six rest days are the way to go (NOT seven 3-mile days).

This week, 6 + 4 + 10-mile race (if it's not cancelled!).

I have no idea what to expect on Saturday. I'm still 15 to 20 pounds over race weight, ugh, and the course is billed as the "toughest" in this part of the state. Huge climb in the final mile. Usually icy and windy. In the past, I've installed screws in my shoes for this race.

Last time, at 57, I was only two months into "serious training," and ambitiously aiming for 7-minute miles. I was shocked to run 6:45 pace. Hoping for another pleasant surprise this year.

M 33, 5'10" 160, 2:56:53 PB

Goal Race: Boston 2022

It's been a strange couple of weeks. My left knee isn't "better" by any means, and I'm not really sure what to do. I don't think my pain intolerance is anything special (otherwise I'd have performed much better in XC or 3K where I think I underachieved), but my discomfort intolerance is high. AKA just having a weird feeling and shutting it out and running through it. I definitely have swelling around the kneecap, and it's often very noticeable while running (often a piercing feeling). I'm not sure I could really sprint with it, but as I saw last week running MP or slower is doable (and doesn't feel harder aerobically). I'm trying to manage it. Big things are not sitting with knees bent for long stretches, icing, some Advil etc. Running actually loosens it up no matter how weird it feels during the exercise. With Boston over 2 months away, I'm not sure my best move. I want to have long runs under my belt. And I'm OK with a more dramatic taper if it makes me feel great on race day.

Long spiel here was last week:

M: 4.8 E with fiancee @ 9:53 in Central Park

TU: 6M @ 8:06 in Central Park

WE: 6.2M @ 8:00 in Central Park

TH-FRI: Rest, knee was worse and weather was very bad

SAT: 5.9 @ 7:55 R, knee felt better but was still there

SUN: 15.06 @ 7:17 - Quality long run, no explicit pushes here but after an 8:23 first mile it was pretty speedy. Heart rate stayed low per my watch. I ran on West Side highway so fewer hills than usual ~ wanted to be mindful of too much stress on my body.

Taking it day-by-day, and again major positive my Haglund's type heel pain seems to be gone. One issue in, one issue out.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote: I definitely have swelling around the kneecap, and it's often very noticeable while running (often a piercing feeling). I'm not sure I could really sprint with it, but as I saw last week running MP or slower is doable (and doesn't feel harder aerobically). I'm trying to manage it. Big things are not sitting with knees bent for long stretches, icing, some Advil etc. Running actually loosens it up no matter how weird it feels during the exercise.

Sounds a lot like what I experienced in 2018-2019. Very frustrating, and had me limited to the elliptical machine for weeks at a time.

The symptoms are typical of "runner's knee" (patellofemoral syndrome), yes? I went to PT, was fairly diligent with the prescribed exercises, but no improvement. After I tripping during a run and landing hard on my knee, I was completely sidelined. All the same symptoms times ten, so I saw a sports MD.

Diagnosis was a bone spur on the petalla, under the quadraceps tendon connection to the knee cap, resulting in constant irritation and inflammation of the tendon. The tendon itself is also "calcified."

Only one knee was X-rayed, but identical symptoms in both knees. Nearly constant pain, now. I cannot stand from a crouched position without assistance.

You're probably too young for that diagnosis, but it might be worth having an X-ray or other tests done.

Yes for sure, Allen. It is 100% runner's knee. Consistent symptoms with going down stairs really the worst part of it all. Sub-ideal to live in a duplex in this instance. It is definitely stemming from an awkward step I took where I landed on a curb 12 days ago. Limited only to left knee as a result. Unless it resolves itself naturally, which I'm dubious I'm a bit resigned that I won't be able to do much faster work to prep for Boston. That being said, I was never really setting a hard time goal there and was just trying to soak in my childhood marathon. So, it really could be worse. Trying to keep a positive view of the whole thing as you can see.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:It is 100% runner's knee.

Follow the usual protocol exercises, and you'll probably see quick improvement. Eight weeks until Boston? You should be able to schedule most of your remaining key workouts.

Regarding "soaking in" your childhood marathon, that reminds me of my first Boston. No time goal, except to qualify again for the next year. The plan was to just run easy and enjoy the experience.

Sadly, though, I was in the best shape of my life, NEVER to be achieved again. Ugh. And the conditions were PERFECT! Greg Meyer, 1st, 2:09:00, Joan Benoit, 1st woman, 2:22:43. There were 84 men, mostly Americans, under 2:20 that year.

Meanwhile, I jogged along, high-fiving spectators, stopping for a beer (yes, someone had set out cups of beer in Newton), finishing in 2:47. At the time, BQ was 2:50, so at least I managed that ...

It would be 20 years and 2 weeks before I broke 3 hours again!

Allen - beer adjusted that's a 2:42 marathon. Doesn't matter how many miles had passed, having a beer then completing the rest of the marathon is impressive.

Uneventful week for me - 39 miles in 5:30 over 6 runs, completely unstructured, 3,000ft of gain. My longest run was 9.3miles and the week featured an 80 min "run" covering 7.5 miles (11 min pace). A lot of vertical, wind, and walking. Enjoying the hobby jogger life.

THICC MIKE wrote:beer adjusted that's a 2:42 marathon.

Mike, I like your conversion tables. After that stop, I do recall checking my watch, and suddenly being nervous about hitting the BQ 2:50 standard -- had to pick up the pace for a while.

There was no "net time" back then, no separate elite start, no waves; just one "gun," and the clock starts ticking for everyone. Of course, fewer than 7,000 starters versus 30,000 now.

Looks like you're mountain climbing. Wow, where is that?!

Part of me wants to just run boston with the intention of just enjoying the experience. I figure one day down the line I will after I'm done fully racing.

Allen - recently moved to Flagstaff. Endless trails and a great running community! My running started in Chicago, at sea level and where a curb is considered a hill, so it's quite an adjustment.

Beerandmiles - I second the run and enjoy Boston motion!

Oh man, I'm so sorry to hear this

Didn't even think of this but will be turning 35 for Boston 2023 making that QT 5 mins easier. Even more reason to go out slowish and have some fun.