MY THEORY ON SUN JINGJIE'S "POSITIVE" TEST

China has thousands of unemployed scientists at their disposal...they encourage higher education but don't have the jobs to support the graduates. I know plenty who came to the US because there were no jobs in China.

It is not that far-fetched to think their gov't would pull out all the stops to put up appearances. Look at the MASSIVE construction they are doing to spruce up their major cities to put on a show for the Olympics.

"It is not that far-fetched to think their gov't would pull out all the stops to put up appearances. Look at the MASSIVE construction they are doing to spruce up their major cities to put on a show for the Olympics"

Or, the massive de-construction! I was amazed when I was in Beijing last year at how much was just being bulldozed, including parts of the historic Hutong district. Additionally, the Chinese are building HUGE walls around areas they deem unsightly (and by Western standards there are many) to "hide" them from the world. I bet the versions of Beijing and other cities we might we see during Olympic TV coverage will reflect very little of the reality of life there. Indeed, all about appearances...

Regarding Sun Yingjie's TRIPLE of Marathon, then 10km then 5km, yes I think that she could do this, without drugs.

The strength in the muscles and connective tissue that Sun Yingjie has developed over the years of hard training and racing would allow her to do this. Keep in mind that her 10km the day after her marathon was more than a minute slower than her PR (30:07). Could Gebresalassie run 27:30 the day after a 2:08 marathon? hell yes.

Jason

Now let me get this straight. . .

Somebody thinks a repressive totalitarian government would act unethically, and illegally, in an effort to make itself look better to the rest of the world? Crazy, I tell ya! Never happened before!

Those seeking to keep their power have absolutely no limits on what they will do. In many parts of the world, Nixon would have been a really nice guy relative to other heads of state. Personally, I think heavy-handed gov't programs designed for Olympic success are more about what's going on INSIDE the country than outside. Competitive team = increased nationalism = reduced gov't criticism. Yet another tool for keeping the population in line.

Show me anyone in the history of running, who has run so fast over 10km (relative to their PR) 30 hours after running so fast over the marathon (relative to their PR). It has NEVER been done....for good reason, I think.

Also don't forget the second placer in the marathon, who PR'd by 2 minutes, then PR'd again in the 10km by a minute. It's just not credible.

I've never been the kind of person to speculate about drug-enhanced performances without some evidence, but as soon as I saw these results, I was convinced that they could not have happened without artificial assistance.

and surely with all hordes of chinese people being born every minute a few of them were not just born as genetic freaks and able to push their bodies to the extreme.

Yeah but what I don't understand is why target Sun Yingjie who is much faster and slightly younger than Chunxia Zhoa. Sun Yingjie stand a better chance of medaling before Chunxia Zhoa and either would have been a good scrapegoat. I wonder what made China (if indeed it was a setup) go after their best marathon and most fearless/frontrunning 10000m woman? ANY IDEAS?

U R NOT the "voice of reason" wrote:

are you aware that Ephedra, a banned stimulant (and also one of the main ingredients of crystal meth) comes from the chinese plant/herb Ma Huang?? And yes, it has been used for centuries there as medicine.

What an idiot.

Ephedra is not banned.

And Dupont and Mansanto don't make their chemicals from Chinese herbs.

Dave Hill wrote:

Show me anyone in the history of running, who has run so fast over 10km (relative to their PR) 30 hours after running so fast over the marathon (relative to their PR). It has NEVER been done....for good reason, I think.

I have done it and I agree with Jason.

Vipam wrote:

Yeah but what I don't understand is why target Sun Yingjie who is much faster and slightly younger than Chunxia Zhoa. Sun Yingjie stand a better chance of medaling before Chunxia Zhoa and either would have been a good scrapegoat. I wonder what made China (if indeed it was a setup) go after their best marathon and most fearless/frontrunning 10000m woman? ANY IDEAS?

It could have been another setup by WADA and Dick Pound.

After all, the drug test protocols have still not been verified to be accurate. To the contrary, it is constantly being verified that they are not at all accurate.

Dunes Runner

You say that you have done it ? I'd be very interested to see you give details of your performances, so that I may be convinced that this is a credible claim.

Dunes Runner

I should, of course, have clarified that I was referring to elite level athletes when I said it had never been done before.

....OK, I won't call you Shirley, but surely there are equally large hordes of people being born in the rest of the world ? This isn't a "Chinese" thing, it's a question of credibility of such performances, by whomever, wherever.

dunes runner wrote:

Dave Hill wrote:

Show me anyone in the history of running, who has run so fast over 10km (relative to their PR) 30 hours after running so fast over the marathon (relative to their PR). It has NEVER been done....for good reason, I think.

I have done it and I agree with Jason.

We are not talking about a 3:15 marathon followed by a 40 minute 10K the next day.

dunes runner wrote:

What an idiot.

Ephedra is not banned.

.

Above a certain limit it certainly is banned. And it can be used to make methamphetamine, which is banned in ANY amount. So YOU are the idiot. Get your facts straight before mouthing off (actually, I am the idiot for trying to convince you to do that, because getting Dunes to actually fact-check before talking out of his ass is like trying to convince a dog to wipe his ass. It ain't gonna happen)

Check this, and search under stimulants:

Francois wrote:

We are not talking about a 3:15 marathon followed by a 40 minute 10K the next day.

No, I was talking about myself, not about you.

Jason is wrong - very wrong, when he suggests that Sun might be in the process of being sacrificed because she is 'no longer young, and is toward the end of her career.' This is nonsense, because Sun is still young and has not been racing on the world stage for more than a few years.'

Sun has to be one of the best potential medallists for Beijing, especially in the Marathon, where her lack of finishing sprint will not be so much of a factor, compared with the track 10.000 and 5000.

One has to agree with our British contributor, Dave Hill, when he states that it is physiologically highly unlikely (read:'impossible') to run a good 10.000 within a day or two of one of your fastest marathon races. And Dave has experience and specific knowledge in that area, as he is a former 2:16 Marathon man himself, and used to race 10.000 (mostly in the 30:00-31:00 minute range).

Take Radcliffe as an example of a clean athlete....when she dropped out of the marathon in Athens (Olympics) and then tried to run the 10.000 one week later......it was evident that she has still not 'recovered' from the partial marathon she ran (we are not even talking about the full distance).

As we have seen numerous times in the past (Lismont - Euro. champs Helsinki - 10.000 followed by Marathon), (Shorter - 10.000 sub. '28' followed by Marathon win i Munich, 1972) and others....it is possible to run a fast 10.000 a few days BEFORE a marathon....but not the other way around...

Sun is 99.9% guilty as charged, one feels, and now we can only wait for the results of the B Sample to come out.

Has anyone considered the possibility that Sun Yinge and the other chinese are in fact clean but the course of the marathons and the track are both short in the championships ??

"Take Radcliffe as an example of a clean athlete...."

I gave up trying to understand Ghost's reasoning after this statement.