My 200m progression in my youth:
2003-22.10
2004-21.98
2005-21.47
2006-20.82
Did I dope?
My 200m progression in my youth:
2003-22.10
2004-21.98
2005-21.47
2006-20.82
Did I dope?
Yes. But legally. You had a testosterone boost
Uncle Sammy wrote:
Yes. But legally. You had a testosterone boost
I was already 20 in 2003. Try again.
But were you competing for a big time university, P5 or Ivy with those resources? No. If you say yes, you are a liar. She had every resource possible at her disposal.
Uncle Sammy wrote:
But were you competing for a big time university, P5 or Ivy with those resources? No. If you say yes, you are a liar. She had every resource possible at her disposal.
No. I don't understand what that has to do with it? I WAS running DI prior to 2003 and DID regress after transferring down a bit. But, as you see, I eventually progressed ANYWAY.
Never took anything other than creatine. So. Simply going based on numbers is clearly anecdotal. Not even saying that she ISN'T doping, just that her numbers dont necessarily prove jack.
Hey Kitty Girl wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
She has also improved a full second in a year.
i wouldn't count 2020, citing that is misleading.
No, it isnt. It is the prior level she improved on to reach 21.61. A full second in a year is huge.
wanttoquitletsrun wrote:
My 200m progression in my youth:
2003-22.10
2004-21.98
2005-21.47
2006-20.82
Did I dope?
You didn't jump a full second in one year, as she just has. You were also not at world class level. If your times were a full second faster - from 20.47 in 2005 down to 19.82 in 2006 I would have found them more interesting. She is a formerly 22-high 200m runner who is now second only to Flojo over the distance, and this achieved in the course of a year. Anything close to Flojo is suspect; a big jump to get there doubly so. Add 3 missed tests (excuses, excuses) and I think she is pretty much the same as all the world leaders now in the sprint events - juiced to the gills.
She was running at the highest level with the best coaching and best resources. Improving after that at her age is what is suspicious. Think if a guy ran for Florida for 4 years as a 20.7 guy and then dropped to 19.7 after graduation.
I doubt Thomas will be able to reproduce that 21.61 any time soon; I think she caught lighting in a bottle that day. Except for Felix, all of the women in that race set massive PRs. The combination of a fast track, high temps and a strong wind will do that. The talent was always there, she was undertrained in high school and college. A Northeast athlete winning an NCAA sprint title is very rare. She had not worked with sprint specific coach until less than 2 years ago and becasue of COVID we are just seeing what that progress looks like. You had to know she was going to get much better once she could train with pro athletes, year round in the heat under Tonja Buford-Bailey.
Unfortunately, like a lot of people who follow the sport closely, you end up learning more about doping than you want to know. There is a profile and some definite patterns that suggest an athlete is possibly, probably or likely doping. Thomas does not fit the profile. She went to Williston Northampton, which is a small highly academic private school. Her mom Jennifer Randall is a UMass college professor, growing up the primary focus was not athletics, it was getting into a good school and getting a degree. She does the fit the win at all cost profile and she is certainly not a sub-elite athlete trying to become elite or an aging elite athlete trying to hang onto a career. In terms of patterns, after her whereabouts scare, if she was doping obviously she would stop and you would expect a performance decrease, but she has gotten better. Why would anyone dope when you have not explored your full capability as a clean athlete.
Basically, I would be very surprised if Gabby Thomas was trying to dope her into track and field success based on profile and patterns.
Quit saying she improved a second in one year. She ran 22.3x INDOORS in 2018 as a Harvard undergrad. She regressed for a couple years after leaving Harvard (injury? transition issues?) but she was the collegiate indoor record holder. Look, I have no idea who is using PEDs and who isn't, but it's not surprising at all that an NCAA record holder in the sprints is contending for a medal 3 years later...
Breton wrote:
Quit saying she improved a second in one year. She ran 22.3x INDOORS in 2018 as a Harvard undergrad. She regressed for a couple years after leaving Harvard (injury? transition issues?) but she was the collegiate indoor record holder. Look, I have no idea who is using PEDs and who isn't, but it's not surprising at all that an NCAA record holder in the sprints is contending for a medal 3 years later...
don't be a fool, she couldn't break 22.6 for 2 years, then all of a sudden she runs a 21.61?? #2 time in world history?
She had one of the best sprint coaches in the USA at Harvard. He teaches and coaches for USATF.
aztec the moronic wrote:
Breton wrote:
Quit saying she improved a second in one year. She ran 22.3x INDOORS in 2018 as a Harvard undergrad. She regressed for a couple years after leaving Harvard (injury? transition issues?) but she was the collegiate indoor record holder. Look, I have no idea who is using PEDs and who isn't, but it's not surprising at all that an NCAA record holder in the sprints is contending for a medal 3 years later...
don't be a fool, she couldn't break 22.6 for 2 years, then all of a sudden she runs a 21.61?? #2 time in world history?
She had one of the best sprint coaches in the USA at Harvard. He teaches and coaches for USATF.
To be fair, 2019 was her transition year from college to pros and just like Sha’Carri Richardson and many others, that first does not always go well and 2020 was COVID which was pretty much an off year for everyone. She didn't just run 21.61 from 22.6, she ran 22.19 back in 2018 and she ran 21.98, 21.94 and then 21.61...she certainly "wasn't stuck on 22.6 for 2 years". She even ran 22.56 as a college sophomore. And, while she had a capable sprint coach at Harvard, no one is going to call him "one of the best sprint coaches in the USA". - Whether you think she is dirty or clean...lets always be fair.
TrackCoach wrote:
I doubt Thomas will be able to reproduce that 21.61 any time soon; I think she caught lighting in a bottle that day. Except for Felix, all of the women in that race set massive PRs. The combination of a fast track, high temps and a strong wind will do that. The talent was always there, she was undertrained in high school and college. A Northeast athlete winning an NCAA sprint title is very rare. She had not worked with sprint specific coach until less than 2 years ago and becasue of COVID we are just seeing what that progress looks like. You had to know she was going to get much better once she could train with pro athletes, year round in the heat under Tonja Buford-Bailey.
Unfortunately, like a lot of people who follow the sport closely, you end up learning more about doping than you want to know. There is a profile and some definite patterns that suggest an athlete is possibly, probably or likely doping. Thomas does not fit the profile. She went to Williston Northampton, which is a small highly academic private school. Her mom Jennifer Randall is a UMass college professor, growing up the primary focus was not athletics, it was getting into a good school and getting a degree. She does the fit the win at all cost profile and she is certainly not a sub-elite athlete trying to become elite or an aging elite athlete trying to hang onto a career. In terms of patterns, after her whereabouts scare, if she was doping obviously she would stop and you would expect a performance decrease, but she has gotten better. Why would anyone dope when you have not explored your full capability as a clean athlete.
Basically, I would be very surprised if Gabby Thomas was trying to dope her into track and field success based on profile and patterns.
Thomas would not be the only sprinter who is doping. I wouldn't bank on any of the other placegetters in her race being clean. The sport is as dirty as hell. Read the latest on Richardson.
Breton wrote:
Quit saying she improved a second in one year. She ran 22.3x INDOORS in 2018 as a Harvard undergrad. She regressed for a couple years after leaving Harvard (injury? transition issues?) but she was the collegiate indoor record holder. Look, I have no idea who is using PEDs and who isn't, but it's not surprising at all that an NCAA record holder in the sprints is contending for a medal 3 years later...
No one contending for a medal can be assumed to be clean.
the rampant doping in usa has never been more blatant,and in your face.those of us who arent from there see what is obvious.if russians or chinese athletes were that good,and had as much depth in numbers as usa has,there would be a global outcry,and articles written in major newspapers.chinese men and russians havent done 9.7/19.4/43.8/46.8/12.8/8.40 long jump and broke the world record in shot put.their high schoolers havent run 19.8 and 3.34.similarly their women havent done 10.6/21.6/49/12.3/51.9/7.18 and had teenagers running 1.56 800's,whilst looking like being on the way to sub 1.55. only usa has done all that.i get that to be competitive and be the best you have to play the game,and that game means lots of drugs.the problem is usa leads the game.theyre right up there with ethiopia and kenya.
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COVID confinemente was a glory time for dopers.
Breton wrote:
Quit saying she improved a second in one year. She ran 22.3x INDOORS in 2018 as a Harvard undergrad. She regressed for a couple years after leaving Harvard (injury? transition issues?) but she was the collegiate indoor record holder. Look, I have no idea who is using PEDs and who isn't, but it's not surprising at all that an NCAA record holder in the sprints is contending for a medal 3 years later...
She actually improved by MORE than 1 second in a year. It doesn't matter she ran 22.38 indoors in 2018, there's not a .8 second conversion. The FACT is that she was in 22.6 shape for 2 years. Then suddenly runs 21.61 the 2nd fastest time in world history.
Add in the FACT that she missed 3 drug tests last year and there's more than enough evidence to make a reasonable person HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS.
jeff tallon wrote:
the rampant doping in usa has never been more blatant,and in your face.those of us who arent from there see what is obvious.if russians or chinese athletes were that good,and had as much depth in numbers as usa has,there would be a global outcry,and articles written in major newspapers.chinese men and russians havent done 9.7/19.4/43.8/46.8/12.8/8.40 long jump and broke the world record in shot put.their high schoolers havent run 19.8 and 3.34.similarly their women havent done 10.6/21.6/49/12.3/51.9/7.18 and had teenagers running 1.56 800's,whilst looking like being on the way to sub 1.55. only usa has done all that.i get that to be competitive and be the best you have to play the game,and that game means lots of drugs.the problem is usa leads the game.theyre right up there with ethiopia and kenya.
I think you're probably right. But we aren't seeing it just with the US. There are spikes in performances occurring everywhere in the lead up to the Games. I feel these Olympics will be as juiced as any we've seen.
22.18 in 2018 to 21.61 (with a tailwind) in 2021 isn’t an impossible progression. What bothers me is the three missed tests…