So what's the deal with the course? On another thread someone said that a 168 SR worked out to 15:45 on the course. You are saying that 162 works out to 16 flat. So it is either short, downhill or completely flat and very fast. So what does a 173 SR work out to. 15:30?
It is a completely flat on a former golf course utilizing fairways.
Where do we find speed ratings?
http://www.tullyrunners.com/Brown is good wrote:
Where do we find speed ratings?
the truth hurtzzz wrote:
Brynn Brown is definitely greatest distance runner to come out of Texas on the girl's side. Really hoping she doesn't get injured like she did last year, assuming she runs any post-state meet events. She can definitely break the 3200m record, and possibly challenge the 2-mile record by Mary Cain, during track this year. But we'll see. Is she greater than Tuohy and other girl's? Probably not, but she's definitely an elite, and this year's crop of girl's is looking really stacked. Can you all name a year that's more stacked as this one? Maybe not the best female runner ever, but certainly a few girl's who would be up there for sure.
Brown's Region 1 win last week was massive.
Wins the race in 17:08, with 2nd in 18:19 (4:52/10:48), 3rd (4:50/10:16) in 18:37.
In a prior race, she already beat another top TX girl this season (4:55/10:30) by about 1:30.
Boy's race was won in 15:45 by a guy who ran 8:38/9:17/4:21 in the short season last year.
Brown would have finished 30th, in the boy's race, assuming she ran the same time.
I really hope we get to see her race the other top girls, otherwise we'll be missing out on a phenomenal year.
“Can you all name a year that's more stacked as this one? Maybe not the best female runner ever, but certainly a few girl's who would be up there for sure.”
Yes I can.......last year probably had the best class of high school girls ever! Tuohy, Starliper, Hart, and Dudek! The present group of girls were talking about will not fill the CC and track record books like the 2020 Class. Brown, Hutchins, and Thorvaldson are not well rounded runners like the class of 2020..... they are just 2 mile and 3K runners, whereas Dudek, Starliper, Tuohy, and Hart had a range from 800m clear up to the 5k! The record books are filled with these four girls in top 10 and top 5 list from the 1500 up to CC 5k. The present girls are elite, but don’t have much of anything under 2 miles.... they are average at best, but the others are elite at the same distances plus 3000, 1600, mile, and 1500.
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But this class is better at 3k, 2 mile, and 5k. And Goggans and Willis will be better 800 runners than anyone who graduated last year.
Ncaa ruler wrote:
But this class is better at 3k, 2 mile, and 5k. And Goggans and Willis will be better 800 runners than anyone who graduated last year.
I think that statement is premature. As we speak Tuohy still holds the XC 5K record, and Dudek and Starliper ran very close to a very long standing record time at Balboa Park. Brown ran the fast 3,200 perfectly paced time, and she as well as Thorvaldson and Hutchins have run some fast times on what seem to be fast XC courses with fairly high speed ratings. Perhaps this year's class will end up being faster. but not yet. Future potential? I wish my crystal ball was that good.
Thorvaldson set the course record at L. Gibson. She ran faster than Dudek in worse conditions.
astro wrote:
So what's the deal with the course? On another thread someone said that a 168 SR worked out to 15:45 on the course. You are saying that 162 works out to 16 flat. So it is either short, downhill or completely flat and very fast. So what does a 173 SR work out to. 15:30?
Actually the course is mostly uphill, and long
Ncaa ruler wrote:
Thorvaldson set the course record at L. Gibson. She ran faster than Dudek in worse conditions.
Well we could go back and forth all day. I don't think NXR was Dudek's best race and in fact she beat Hart, Ewert, David and Crain by a lot larger margin at FLN than she did at the NXR where Hart ran the same SR (159) as she did at FLN. Thorvaldsons SR at L. Gibson was almost equal to Dudek's at FLN (168 vs 169). Also recall Dudek ran FL MW, the European race and FLN in consecutive weeks. Hart, Ewert, David, and Crain had a similar schedule running NXN instead of the European race.
I just don't think the data is in yet to say this year is better. I do say yet. More races may suggest they are. This year is certainly very strong.
I_look_at_SRs wrote:
The Dirty Duck wrote:
Anna Rohrer ran 15:29 a year after her 17:08 on the same course, for reference.
Nice run.
A great run by Sydney. Very dominating. But no, not 2nd fastest outside of FL. I count 11 that were above 168 and not connected to FL.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16kLSetISoA-Dx_yOn86l_mu5bAjRzqX1YEYcQ5SEFdY/edit#gid=0
Tuohy Van Cortland Park 13:21 not listed.
30:45X-C1978 wrote:
Tuohy Van Cortland Park 13:21 not listed.
Actually, it is there (line 45 - 166), and as others always point out it is Van Cortlandt. I will add "Park" to the description.
But I do appreciate any possible adds I may have missed.
I_look_at_SRs wrote:
30:45X-C1978 wrote:
Tuohy Van Cortland Park 13:21 not listed.
Actually, it is there (line 45 - 166), and as others always point out it is Van Cortlandt. I will add "Park" to the description.
But I do appreciate any possible adds I may have missed.
Thank you! I only ran 13:07 for 2.5M X-C there (she ran 13:21 for 4K) and 9:22 for 2M in HS for comparison. Thought it would have been rated much higher, like top 5 all time. I gave up looking for it around 40th on the list. Thanks.
Looking back at the women's elite race, Markovc (4:09/15:11 PRs) passed 5K in 17:00. Granted they seemed to pick it up the last 1K, but I honestly think that Thorvaldson would have hung to the finish, she looked strong and unpressed.
YMMV wrote:
Looking back at the women's elite race, Markovc (4:09/15:11 PRs) passed 5K in 17:00. Granted they seemed to pick it up the last 1K, but I honestly think that Thorvaldson would have hung to the finish, she looked strong and unpressed.
Yes, it looks like Thorvaldson will be a standout at Arkansas from day 1. Harter has said this is possibly his best recruiting class and definitely top two. So he has a lot of confidence that Thorvaldson and Carmie Prinsloo will be two of his best ever.
Thorvaldson — clearly a Norwegian roots. Clearly a Norwegian year.
30:45X-C1978 wrote:
I_look_at_SRs wrote:
Actually, it is there (line 45 - 166), and as others always point out it is Van Cortlandt. I will add "Park" to the description.
But I do appreciate any possible adds I may have missed.
Thank you! I only ran 13:07 for 2.5M X-C there (she ran 13:21 for 4K) and 9:22 for 2M in HS for comparison. Thought it would have been rated much higher, like top 5 all time. I gave up looking for it around 40th on the list. Thanks.
You have to remember that the Van Cortlandt race was a 4k race and speed ratings get scaled by distance. If you look at the actual speed ratings published, Bill Meylan has a note that "The Girls Speed Ratings Have Been Scaled to reflect the distance (4K)". Unfortunately, he doesn't give a scaling factor, and it's not just 5k/4k. So, Tuohy's 166.33 would be much higher if unscaled to compare equally to 5k times.
Bill, is that something you can calculate so that we can better put that legendary run in the context of 5k speed ratings?
http://tullyrunners.com/XC2017/ManhattanGirls2017.htmspeed ratings scale by distance wrote:
You have to remember that the Van Cortlandt race was a 4k race and speed ratings get scaled by distance. If you look at the actual speed ratings published, Bill Meylan has a note that "The Girls Speed Ratings Have Been Scaled to reflect the distance (4K)". Unfortunately, he doesn't give a scaling factor, and it's not just 5k/4k. So, Tuohy's 166.33 would be much higher if unscaled to compare equally to 5k times.
Bill, is that something you can calculate so that we can better put that legendary run in the context of 5k speed ratings?
http://tullyrunners.com/XC2017/ManhattanGirls2017.htm
It looks to me (and to be clear, I am not Bill) like the 166 is in the right neighborhood. This 13:21 was the same pace as a 16:42 5K which would be 21 seconds faster than what Starliper ran the FL NE which was a 163 SR. The extra K is flat, so the same pace being appropriate to me seems close. Perhaps 168? But that is a pure WAG.
For whatever reason there are still people here who put Touhy on some mythical plane and GOAT. There is a reasonable chance she could beat this girls in your prime as a Sophomore or Junior girls but she could just as easily lose. She has never a 9:39 3200 like Bryn or repeat miles in sub 5 on a grassy surface. The reality is that they are all pretty close and none are world class teen prodigies like Zola Budd from yesteryear:
While doing well in Club champs was impressive it was hardly a representative national championship lacking the real big guns in the sport like Molly Huddle, Jenny Simpson, Shelby Houlighan, Shannon Rowbury, Emma Coburn etc.