Anyone Followed the Hadd Program?

Reluctantly, knowing it'll draw out the trolls, I'll chime in. For info, I'm 41 and have run since I was a teenager, although I've only "competed" since early to mid-30s.I've been following Hadd's advice nearly three years. NOTE, however, the training he described in the "one approach to distance training" thread from 2003 was the way he approaches aerobic development (base training) and doesn't really touch on race specific preparation for shorter distance races. So, if you just follow that outline, it will turn you into an aerobic animal, and get you ready for a decent marathon, but won't make you race ready for 1500 to HM races.With that caveat...The first year (2003) the only real part of his advice I followed was to increase mileage. I didn't pay very close attention to the rest of it. I went from an average of maybe 30 mpw to roughly 55. I added plenty of workouts into the mix, but these were a combination of "sort of" Hadd sessions (I didn't like to use the HRM) and speed sessions a buddy had me do. The result was that my times dropped across thr board. On average, I was running 10k 30s faster than before.2004 - I went back and reread the thread and made an honest effort to follow the training properly. This year I set, again, new PRs across the board, at 5000 (16:13), 5M (27:35 to 26:42), 10k (34:42 to 34:21), HM (1:16:42 to 1:16:22) and M (2:44:52 to 2:44:46). I also debuted at 1500 and 3000 and ran times as good as or better than my other times (4:18.7 and 3:17.7).2005 - I continued to follow Hadd's advice and again set new PRs at 5k (16:08), 10000 (33:46), HM (1:16:22 to 1:14:58) and M (2:42:03). Couldn't nudge the 1500/3000 down, though.2006 - this year I still follow Hadd's advice and have set new marks at 1500 (4:17.5 last night), 3000 (9:17.3), 5k road (16:13 from 16:36), 10k road (32:56 on a downhill course). I also debuted at 800 and have gone 2:07.7, 2:05.9 and 2:04.8 (last night), which is "better" than my other times. I will now aim toward HM and marathon distances for the fall and hope to lower those marks also.

Hadder? wrote:If so,

(1) did it work?

(2) Please tell me about what you liked,

(3) didn't like, and

(4) how long it took to see results.

(1) it has worked well for me so far.

(2) I enjoy the training. It's based to a certain extent on science, and a greater extent on Hadd's personal obesrvation (from what I understand), but it's basic precepts seem to make good sense to me.

(3) I didn't like being a slave to the HRM, especially in the beginning. I think this is what puts most people off this training. I find I don't need to rely on it most days now, although I'll use it more in marathon specific training this fall.

(4) well, it's been three years and counting. I hope it hasn't stopped yet. You need to understand that this is a deliberate approach to training that's intended to show improvements for several years. This is not the right training approach for impatient people.

Hope that helps.

great job on your track accomplishments from last night Pete.

16x wrote:great job on your track accomplishments from last night Pete.

Thanks, 16x.

I went to race 10,000, actually feeling in prime form to run a good time. And the weather was perfect for a track race - maybe 23C with a breeze, no humidity.

When I showed up, they told me it was cancelled. I was dumbfounded. Whaddya mean CANCELLED? I just drove 2+ hrs for this farking race that I had marked in my calendar from the beginning of the farking season, and was meant to be the culmination of track season. And they CANCELLED?!? Like I mean, wtf...!

Turns out noone else showed up to race, so they cancelled. Not the organizers' fault. I suppose if I'd pressed the point they might have let me race myself but I don't think anyone there - least of all ME - would have enjoyed watching me run 25 laps.

So I opted to double the 800/1500 for fun, like what the hell, eh? Running PRs in both was unexpected, but a nice way to wrap track season for the year.

I'll chime in, too. I'm a little older than Pete, 45, and also have been following the Hadd advice for about three years. I ran in college and for a few years after and then gave it up for the most part. I started running again around 38 and quickly got semi-serious about it. For a while I kind of made it up as I went along, trying to remember what we used to do, then followed the Daniels Formula for a while, then the JK Master's Training thing on this site.

Frustrated with my inability to improve much, I turned to the Hadd program at 42. To be honest, my progress has been slow. It's partly my fault, as I've missed long stretches with family issues and a nasty Achilles injury. I'm an old middle-distance runner and it seems to take a long while for base work to pay off. I get faster fast with intensity, but burn out fast, too. It took me a good two years to understand that when Hadd said he recommended a minimum of 50 MPW, he meant a minimum of 50 MPW. That said, over the last three years I've run faster than I did over the four years before at 5K and 10K. I'll try to finish my first marathon on his plan in the fall, and had better set an "over-30" PR there, as the two I ran in my late 30s were total bomb jobs. I have never approached my old PRs, but my life and my body are rather different now.

OK, to answer your questions:

Did it work?

Yes, especially considering the limitation I have on time and menetal energy to put into running.

Please tell me about what you liked

I'm running more than ever. I don't think I ever ran more than 50 MPW before, and now I've done it almost every week since February, and been over 70 five of the last six weeks. I really enjoy being able to run 10-12 mile tempo runs near marathon pace and finish them feeling like I could keep going for a good long time.

didn't like

I still hate wearing the HRM, and only do it on the tempo runs and the rare easy run, just to check pace to HR. It also was very hard to figure out what a real recovery run was. But slowly, my recovery run pace is picking up and my recovery HR is dropping.

and how long it took to see results.

I saw some results the first year, but at my age it is really more a matter of trying not to slow down every year. On that count, it has been a great success.

Spell check -

"mental" energy

Glad to see it all worked out Pete. What does farking mean?

:)

What would the HR based training look like when training for a marathon 14weeks down the road? Or do you/hadd just recommend building mile and not focusing on races. I am wondering on the percentages...the thread is sooooo long that I do not have time to read it all right now and I am looking for a quick answer...lazy bastard

Those Farking bastages violated his farking rights. What iceholes.

I posted this on a new thread before I saw this, so I'll consolidate.

Anyone have a link to the old Hadd thread. There also was a site that hosted it, but that has since been shut down.

Pete: Any other info on the program you've followed for the last 3 years that you'd like to share? I've read the threads about your results, but would like to have a short sample of your training if it's not too much trouble.....

I've posted chunks of this before. This is a cut and paste from my overview log since last December. Week 1 was sometime in 2004 when I started to approach the training honestly. Note that very little of this looks like the work in the long Hadd thread (since I've been relying on last fall's aerobic work and aiming for shorter races), but the next few months' training as I aim for a marathon will look very much like that sort of training.

Here's the link to the huge Hadd thread:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=91048&thread=91048

(unfortunately looks like it's been deleted by wejo and friends - god knows why - if you leave an email, I have most of it all saved in a word document)

Here's the last few months' training:

Week 100: 31 miles, all easy, 6.7 mile LR

Week 101: 63 miles, all easy, 12.3 mile LR

Week 102: 77 miles incl 2 x 5k of 200/200 @ 38/55s, 8 x 800 @ 2:40-42 w/400m jog rest (1:55ish), 13 miles LR

Week 103 (1 Jan 06): 61 miles incl 8 miles @ 135-140, 4 x 800 (planned 6) @ 2:36 w/400m (2:00) jog rest, 12 mile LR

Week 104: 63 miles incl 8 x 100/100 @ 16/29s w/ 8k @ 6:10, 8k race (28:36 - ouch!), 12 mile LR

Week 105: 65 miles incl 6 x 800 @ 2:35-36 w/200m (1:55) jog rest followed by 3 miles @ 6:24, 15 mile LR

Week 106: 53 miles incl 3 x 2800 @ 87s/lap w/200m jog rest, 5 x 1000 @ 3:16 w/200m jog rest, 11 mile LR

Week 107: 32 miles incl 2 x 2400 w/200m jog @ 5:30/mile pace and 8 x 100/100 @ 17/34s, 11 mile LR, foot injury

Week 108: 16 miles all easy (cold/flu)

Week 109: 37 miles incl 2400 + 2 x 1600 w/200m jog rest @ 5:30/mile pace, 5k of 200/200 @ 39/56s, 5k race (17:04), foot recovering

Week 110: 55 miles incl 4 x 1200 @ 3:58 w/200m jog rest, 15 mile LR with 8.5 @ 6:24/142

Week 111: 67 miles incl 3 x (4 x 400) @ 74s w/200/400 jog rest, 5k @ 84s/lap (95% 5k pace), 15 mile LR

Week 112: 76 miles incl 6 x 800 w/200m jog rest @ 2:33.9, 5.5 @ sub-151, 14.5 mile LR incl 8.5 @ sub-143

Week 113: 61 miles incl 4 x 1200 w/200 jog @ 3:57.5, 5k road race (16:32.8), 11 mile LR

Week 114: 79 miles incl 3 x (4 x 400) @ 72.8 w/200/400 jog, 5k @ 95% effort (17:10), 12 mile LR

Week 115: 56 miles incl 5 x 800 w/200 jog @ 2:31.5, 3000i race @ 9:23.6, 12 mile LR

Week 116: 73 miles incl 4 x 1600 w/600m jog @ 5:18.9s, 8 miles @ 6:20/140ish, 13 mile LR

Week 117: 67 miles incl 8k @ 87s/lap, 5k race (16:13.8, 19 s PR), 12 mile LR

Week 118: 83 miles incl 3 x 800 @ 2:32 (planned 8), 14 mile LR incl 8 @ 6:25

Week 119: 80 miles incl 5k @ 95% effort (16:55), 2 x (4 x 400) w/200/400j @ 72s, 12.5 mile LR

Week 120: 57 miles incl 8k @ 85% (6:00/140-142), 2.5 @ 6:30ish, 5k race @ 16:32, 12 mile LR

Week 121: 68 miles incl 4 miles @ 78% (6:25ish), 3 x 200 @ 34-5 plus 3 x 100 @ 14-14.5, downhill 10k race @ 32:56, 11.5 mile LR

Week 122: 74 miles incl 2.5 @ 6:25/139, 5 @ 6:05/145, 5k XC race (16:55), 16 mile LR

Week 123: 89 miles incl 3.5 @ 6:25/137, 3 x (4 x 400) w/200/400j @ 71.2s avg, 15 mile LR with 8 @ 6:10-15/140ish

Week 124: 43 miles incl 5 x 800 w/600j @ 2:29, 3 miles @ 6:20-25, 6 @ 5:55-6:10 (no LR)

Week 125: 87 miles incl 4800+1600 @ 85s/lap, 3 miles @ 6:25-30, 3 x 800 w/400j @ 2:30 + 3 @ 6:20-25, 12 mile LR with 8 @ 6:05-20

Week 126: 68 miles incl 6 x 800 w/400j @ 2:29.5, 3 x 200 w/400j @ 34 + 3 x 100 w/700j @ 14, mile race (4:46, dirt track, windy), 10 mile LR

Week 127: 74 miles incl 4 x 800 w/400j @ 2:27.7 + 4 x 300 w/300j @ 49-50, 2 x 3000 @ 3:23/km, no LR

Week 128: 49 miles incl 3 laps of 100/100 @ 16/30, mile race @ 4:41, 5 miles @ 5:52/147, 6 x 100 strides @ mile effort, no LR

Week 129: 64 miles incl 800 @ 2:07.6 (debut), 3 x 200 w/400j @ 33 + 3 x 100 w/700j @ 14, road mile race, no LR

Week 130: 79 miles incl 3000 race @ 9:17.3 (0.4s PR), 8k @ 86s/lap, 13 mile LR with 3 @ 6:20

Week 131: 75 miles incl 3 x 200@ 31.5 w/400j + 3 x 100 @ 13.2 w/700j, 1500 race @ 4:18.93, 2 x 2000 @ 6:45 (planned 4), no LR

Week 132 (23 July 2006): 67 miles incl 3 x 30s sprints w/2:15j + 3 x 12s w/4:00j, 800 race @ 2:05.93 (2s PR), 3 x 200 @ 30.5 w/400j + 3 x 100 @ 13.5 w/700j, no LR

Week 133: 81 miles incl 3 x 200@ 30.5 w/400j + 3 x 100 @ 13.5 w/700j, 5000 race (16:12 - hot/humid), 13 mile LR with 5 @ M-effort

Week 134: 77 miles incl 1 x 1600 (planned 4 - hot/humid, diet/sleep out of whack) @ 10k pace, 4 x 800 (planned 5 - too hot) @ 10k pace, no LR

Week 135 (so far): 34 miles incl 3 x 200 @ 30.4 w/400j + 3 x 100 @ 13.1 w/700j, 800/1500 races (2:04.8/4:17.5 both 1.1 s PR)

I tried to open up the link and it did not work?

Pete,

Thanks very much. Included an email.

Done. Check yr email. Cheers

Pete,

Could you send me the word doc as well? Thanks.

Thanks Pete...

shaq - What sorts of training (mileage and workouts) have you been doing up until this point? Also, do you think you have more natural speed or more natural endurance?

I'm currently training following Hadd's guidelines. Although I haven't been training as long as Pete or Dr. Smith, I've been doing it for the past 3 1/2 months.

Basically yes a slave to the HRM and working on upping the mileage.

Does it work? Yes I have already ran a decent 5k time not a PR but was done w/o even a run under 9 min pace in training. More importantly is how impressed I was on how I felt during the race.

Also easy regular day runs HR has dropped vs. pace. That is when you know you are improving besides race times.

Other than that all I can say is that I'm a believer in the system and I can't wait to reach these new mileage heights and I'm confident I'm going to set PRs across the board. The only drawback I can think of is that it is not a system for inpatient runners. You definitely have to stay focused and grind it out.

Oh yea the other bad thing is how different situations in the weather/diet/sleep affect your HR. You really have to be consistent so that you can accurately get HR figures.

Hadd to try it wrote:(1) The only drawback I can think of is that it is not a system for inpatient runners. You definitely have to stay focused and grind it out.

(2) Oh yea the other bad thing is how different situations in the weather/diet/sleep affect your HR. You really have to be consistent so that you can accurately get HR figures.

(1) Yeah, I said that too. I think a lot of people also get frustrated with how slow the HRM will tell them to go on easy days. It took me probably a year to stop getting uptight about that. Many people quit long before they get past the point of accepting that easy days can/should be run fairly slowly. But the work sessions get to be quite hard, especially as fitness improves over time. 12 miles at 87-90% HRmax (sort of the "end" of Hadd's base training) is a pretty freakin' tough session if you try to run it straight out of the box. If approached patiently, it becomes a very invigorating session.

(2) HR can vary due to a variety of factors (fuelling, sleep, health, weather, etc), and it takes some experience and guidance to get the hang of these things.

Dr. Smith,

I have been running about 40-45mpw iwth 1:45-2hr long runs and some workouts, since April...recently injured achilles.

I am def more of a speed type runner (was jumper in college, 52 400 runner) Larger lower body more muscular in nature.