• rojo
      co-founder
      • Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/21/2017 7:51PM
      • rojo
        co-founder
      • I really like Goe's work but don't agree with his logic on this one.

        Ken Goe wrote:
        It's hard to know whether to laugh or cry about the allegations against Salazar. They continue to linger because a two-year investigation by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency remains open while also apparently going nowhere.

        At this point, if you believe Salazar is cheating or has cheated you must also believe the USADA is inept.

        Here is a thought: in the absence of any actionable evidence, maybe it's reasonable to conclude he hasn't cheated.
        I totally get that if it's annoying for everyone (Salazar haters and lovers) that this has gone on so long, but I don't believe that if you think Salazar has cheated you have to think USADA is inept as well simply because nothing has been proven.

        I mean it's very hard to get convictions in this world. Lance Armstrong was accused of doping in 1999. He didn't get convicted until 2012. Bonds hit 70+ homers in 2001 but didn't get charged with anything until 2017.

        Hell, the thing that's frustrating for me is law enforcement raided Aden's hotel in Spain last June and we've had no convictions almost a year later. Stuff is very hard to prove (and yes Aden could be clean).

        Tons of athletes doped in the 1980s and 1990s and were never busted just like plenty of criminals commit crimes and never get bused. How often do I speed and never get busted? All the time.

        Here is the full article.

        http://www.oregonlive.com/trac...iver_index
    • Dope spotter
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/21/2017 8:02PM - in reply to rojo
      • Dope spotter
      • rojo wrote:
        I really like Goe's work but don't agree with his logic on this one.

        Ken Goe wrote:
        It's hard to know whether to laugh or cry about the allegations against Salazar. They continue to linger because a two-year investigation by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency remains open while also apparently going nowhere.

        At this point, if you believe Salazar is cheating or has cheated you must also believe the USADA is inept.

        Here is a thought: in the absence of any actionable evidence, maybe it's reasonable to conclude he hasn't cheated.
        I totally get that if it's annoying for everyone (Salazar haters and lovers) that this has gone on so long, but I don't believe that if you think Salazar has cheated you have to think USADA is inept as well simply because nothing has been proven.

        I mean it's very hard to get convictions in this world. Lance Armstrong was accused of doping in 1999. He didn't get convicted until 2012. Bonds hit 70+ homers in 2001 but didn't get charged with anything until 2017.

        Hell, the thing that's frustrating for me is law enforcement raided Aden's hotel in Spain last June and we've had no convictions almost a year later. Stuff is very hard to prove (and yes Aden could be clean).

        Tons of athletes doped in the 1980s and 1990s and were never busted just like plenty of criminals commit crimes and never get bused. How often do I speed and never get busted? All the time.

        Here is the full article.

        http://www.oregonlive.com/trac...iver_index
        You and your band of message board losers (and your profit center I should add) would have no trouble "convicting" Salazar or other "dopers" with your superior Cornell affiliation
    • fuzzy logic
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/21/2017 8:04PM - in reply to rojo
      • fuzzy logic
      • Definitely agree rojo. Goe knew he was on shaky ground because he threw in the term "actionable". But that makes is quote dumb - just because evidence is not legally actionable doesn't mean it's not evidence.

        Ccheating is not just doing things that would cause a positive test. It could be taking banned medications that boost you to levels that are still below the test cutoff. There's also the gray zone that many people would consider unethical but might be inside the rules, like maybe TUEs you don't actually need. How is USADA supposed to magically be able to detect or rule on this stuff? They can't.

        There's cheating, and then there's bending the rules. And then there's AlSal. We may never know.
    • Furio
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/21/2017 8:05PM - in reply to rojo
      • Furio
      • He believes in his people, rojo. Would march into hell with them if he had to. You have people like that too including me.

        If someone threw the brojos under the bus I would defend them. As i would jordan hasay.

        Some of us are willing to be convinced simply for the enjoyment. Not our problem to decode drug cheats so why try and make it one?
    • A Duck Outer
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/21/2017 9:02PM - in reply to Dope spotter
      • A Duck Outer
      • Dope spotter wrote:
        rojo wrote:
        I really like Goe's work but don't agree with his logic on this one.

        Ken Goe wrote:
        It's hard to know whether to laugh or cry about the allegations against Salazar. They continue to linger because a two-year investigation by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency remains open while also apparently going nowhere.

        At this point, if you believe Salazar is cheating or has cheated you must also believe the USADA is inept.

        Here is a thought: in the absence of any actionable evidence, maybe it's reasonable to conclude he hasn't cheated.
        I totally get that if it's annoying for everyone (Salazar haters and lovers) that this has gone on so long, but I don't believe that if you think Salazar has cheated you have to think USADA is inept as well simply because nothing has been proven.

        I mean it's very hard to get convictions in this world. Lance Armstrong was accused of doping in 1999. He didn't get convicted until 2012. Bonds hit 70+ homers in 2001 but didn't get charged with anything until 2017.

        Hell, the thing that's frustrating for me is law enforcement raided Aden's hotel in Spain last June and we've had no convictions almost a year later. Stuff is very hard to prove (and yes Aden could be clean).

        Tons of athletes doped in the 1980s and 1990s and were never busted just like plenty of criminals commit crimes and never get bused. How often do I speed and never get busted? All the time.

        Here is the full article.

        http://www.oregonlive.com/trac...iver_index
        You and your band of message board losers (and your profit center I should add) would have no trouble "convicting" Salazar or other "dopers" with your superior Cornell affiliation
        ^A Duck Outed
    • The Dirty Duck
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/21/2017 9:29PM - in reply to rojo
      • The Dirty Duck
      • I agree that it's a badly flawed argument, but also have no problem saying that USADA is almost definitely incompetent or corrupt. For God's sake, they missed eighty cheating US athletes that we only learned about from an IAAF leak if their bio passports. What more evidence do you need?
    • Bring Back the 880
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/21/2017 9:34PM - in reply to rojo
      • Bring Back the 880
      • I'm not sure that the two ideas are mutually exclusive. In fact, it may be reasonable to believe that both are true
    • Coors Measurement
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/21/2017 9:41PM - in reply to rojo
      • Coors Measurement
      • Robert, as I have stated before you ran a very lax recreational drug monitoring program at Cornell.

        Why should we believe that you were more diligent about PED's?

        Seriously.

        Stop the accusations.

        Grow up.

        Move on.
    • Hard to know .......
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/21/2017 10:05PM - in reply to rojo
      • Hard to know .......
      • I would not call anyone inept. I could be wrong, but I think the US tests and investigates more than other countries. That said, I would be surprised if this goes anywhere. People may not like his approach but it could be that he is inside the rules, hence the term actionable. By all means, keep testing and investigate but I would temper expectations and put this in context to other doping scandals in the sport.

        Plus, do people just think Rupp is a cheat and no one else?

        In terms of dominance Rupp is nothing like Bonds or Lance. They totally dominated their sports and set all sorts of records. And Lance had a whole team doping. Rupp is a world class runner but he needs a really good day to medal and he has one AR. He is nowhere near world records. His accomplishment are not impossible - Jager has medaled and has an AR; Ritz got a World Half medal and ran a faster 5000 and half; Solinsky had potential to medal before getting hurt and crushed Rupp in his 10000 debut. And, of course, Centrowitz won gold and medaled in tactical races. I could go on but the point is that there are other US runners with great talent who have had success. And while there are people making statements against Rupp and AlSal there are also lots of people who seem reasonable and stand by them.

        Aden's situation had EPO in his athletes' room at his camp. Seems harder to explain.

        rojo wrote:
        I really like Goe's work but don't agree with his logic on this one.

        Ken Goe wrote:
        It's hard to know whether to laugh or cry about the allegations against Salazar. They continue to linger because a two-year investigation by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency remains open while also apparently going nowhere.

        At this point, if you believe Salazar is cheating or has cheated you must also believe the USADA is inept.

        Here is a thought: in the absence of any actionable evidence, maybe it's reasonable to conclude he hasn't cheated.
        I totally get that if it's annoying for everyone (Salazar haters and lovers) that this has gone on so long, but I don't believe that if you think Salazar has cheated you have to think USADA is inept as well simply because nothing has been proven.

        I mean it's very hard to get convictions in this world. Lance Armstrong was accused of doping in 1999. He didn't get convicted until 2012. Bonds hit 70+ homers in 2001 but didn't get charged with anything until 2017.

        Hell, the thing that's frustrating for me is law enforcement raided Aden's hotel in Spain last June and we've had no convictions almost a year later. Stuff is very hard to prove (and yes Aden could be clean).

        Tons of athletes doped in the 1980s and 1990s and were never busted just like plenty of criminals commit crimes and never get bused. How often do I speed and never get busted? All the time.

        Here is the full article.

        http://www.oregonlive.com/trac...iver_index
    • Rosa in Chains
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/21/2017 10:13PM - in reply to rojo
      • Rosa in Chains
      • The accusations against Salazar are to keep people's attention off the fact that officials allow E. Africans and other third world athletes to cheat. Every time some new "big" story about Salazar hits, you can bet that some bad news about some E. African fraud is about to hit the wires. Then the stories about Salazar and crew will be in the news every day while there will be pretend concern about the E. African cheat for a couple of days and then the stories will fade to nothing inside of a week.
    • Bad Wigins
      registered
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/21/2017 10:16PM - in reply to rojo
      • Bad Wigins
        registered
      • non sequitur. They're not inept, they're corrupt.
    • Moo Goo
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/21/2017 10:29PM - in reply to rojo
      • Moo Goo
      • I wouldn't believe otherwise. Albert dope check. USADA inept check. I thought the latter was given.
    • Finally, Reason Wins
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/22/2017 1:01AM - in reply to Hard to know .......
      • Finally, Reason Wins
      • Hard to know ....... wrote:
        I would not call anyone inept. I could be wrong, but I think the US tests and investigates more than other countries. That said, I would be surprised if this goes anywhere. People may not like his approach but it could be that he is inside the rules, hence the term actionable. By all means, keep testing and investigate but I would temper expectations and put this in context to other doping scandals in the sport.

        Plus, do people just think Rupp is a cheat and no one else?

        In terms of dominance Rupp is nothing like Bonds or Lance. They totally dominated their sports and set all sorts of records. And Lance had a whole team doping. Rupp is a world class runner but he needs a really good day to medal and he has one AR. He is nowhere near world records. His accomplishment are not impossible - Jager has medaled and has an AR; Ritz got a World Half medal and ran a faster 5000 and half; Solinsky had potential to medal before getting hurt and crushed Rupp in his 10000 debut. And, of course, Centrowitz won gold and medaled in tactical races. I could go on but the point is that there are other US runners with great talent who have had success. And while there are people making statements against Rupp and AlSal there are also lots of people who seem reasonable and stand by them.

        Aden's situation had EPO in his athletes' room at his camp. Seems harder to explain.

        rojo wrote:
        I really like Goe's work but don't agree with his logic on this one.

        Ken Goe wrote:
        It's hard to know whether to laugh or cry about the allegations against Salazar. They continue to linger because a two-year investigation by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency remains open while also apparently going nowhere.

        At this point, if you believe Salazar is cheating or has cheated you must also believe the USADA is inept.

        Here is a thought: in the absence of any actionable evidence, maybe it's reasonable to conclude he hasn't cheated.
        I totally get that if it's annoying for everyone (Salazar haters and lovers) that this has gone on so long, but I don't believe that if you think Salazar has cheated you have to think USADA is inept as well simply because nothing has been proven.

        I mean it's very hard to get convictions in this world. Lance Armstrong was accused of doping in 1999. He didn't get convicted until 2012. Bonds hit 70+ homers in 2001 but didn't get charged with anything until 2017.

        Hell, the thing that's frustrating for me is law enforcement raided Aden's hotel in Spain last June and we've had no convictions almost a year later. Stuff is very hard to prove (and yes Aden could be clean).

        Tons of athletes doped in the 1980s and 1990s and were never busted just like plenty of criminals commit crimes and never get bused. How often do I speed and never get busted? All the time.

        Here is the full article.

        http://www.oregonlive.com/trac...iver_index
        Dude. Perfect post. +1. Your argument lets all of the short-sighted whiners on this website know that common sense wins.

        Here's another common sense argument to remind all of the haters:

        Rupp's progression has been steady and gradual throughout his entire running career. When we see sudden jumps in performance like Rashid Ramzi for example, we have the right to expect that it's not common to have such a drastic improvement in performance in such a short amount of time. Galen has always been a top talent. It's not unreasonable to believe that uninterrupted training over the course of 16 YEARS makes someone an exceptional runner.

        Lastly, many people here forget that Galen has been running since 2001. That's 16 years of focused running. Can you imagine how good you would get at your profession if you did nothing but that activity for 16 years? And you poured every ounce of energy and effort into improving your skills at that activity? No distractions, no switching careers, you were laser-focused on your profession. Chances are you would land pretty close to the best people in your industry. You wouldn't necessarily be the best in the world, but you would get to elite status.

        I'm so sick of these doping accusations. Grow a pair, you poosssssiees.

        Or.....................you can continue to get mad and angry and FRUSTRATED every time Galen runs a good time and try to explain, and theorize, and make up conspiracies on why it wasn't reality. Sometimes reality's hard. It's hard to accept that good ol' Galen Rupp is THE BEST AMERICAN DISTANCE RUNNER.

        As Ice Cube says in the song "Gangsta Rap Made Me Do It," "oh and another thing..." the logic in Ken Goe's statement is accurate when it comes to characterizing the position that the haters take. The haters' logic is that EVERYBODY's in on it. As if we faked the moon landing, and there are hundreds of people who are keeping quiet. In this scenario, when people claim that Rupp is cheating, they are also making the claim that EVERYONE IS INVOLVED IN THIS MASSIVE COVER UP SCHEME. They are insulting the intelligence of the doping agencies for making mistakes on the drug tests, mishandling the samples, or succumbing to bribery. Those are big claims. Those are serious claims. But hey, it's the internet, and no one would actually go up to Galen on camera and say "you're cheating!" because deep down, they would feel like idiots for doing so. By the way, if you feel so strongly about it, then post a video of yourself going up to Galen and Alberto and saying "you're a cheater." Also, post a video of you going to the USADA offices and examining the blood samples yourself.

        What, you're not going to do that? You don't have access to those samples? You're giving us an excuse?

        It's simple: excuses are for losers.

        That's what I thought. YOU ARE A BUNCH OF PUNKS. It makes me so happy when Galen runs a great race, because now, in addition to celebrating an accomplishment of a hard-working athlete, there's an added benefit to see all of the haters go stir-crazy.

        Hope you guys have fun at your next track meet.
    • Honestly man
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/22/2017 1:10AM - in reply to rojo
      • Honestly man
      • I don't think it's an absurd statement to suggest anti-doping agencies are inept. Your examples of Lance and Bonds prove how inadequate the testing is. The job of anti-doping agencies is to catch dopers, and they do not appear to be very good at it.
    • CorrectionOnBonds
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/22/2017 6:06AM - in reply to rojo
      • CorrectionOnBonds
      • Rojo, I think this is a good post, a great topic of conversation, and perhaps would be a fantastic thing to do a back-and-forth between you and Ken Goe.

        Quick correction though: Bonds is a terrible example for your point. Remember the perjury charges? Obstruction of justice? Your dates are a little off. But just strike Bonds from your post and you're set.
    • Her royalty
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/22/2017 6:14AM - in reply to rojo
      • Her royalty
      • Paula Radcliffe cheated for half of her career (the half where she was fast) and didn't get caught. Yet, she is a Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, as awarded by Queen Elizabeth.

        Is the Queen of England also inept? Or do Brits just have no standards of decency?
    • Lada
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/22/2017 8:12AM - in reply to Her royalty
      • Lada
      • Her royalty wrote:
        Paula Radcliffe cheated for half of her career (the half where she was fast) and didn't get caught. Yet, she is a Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, as awarded by Queen Elizabeth.

        Is the Queen of England also inept? Or do Brits just have no standards of decency?
        Oh - I guess I forgot when this happened. Thanks for reminding me. Douche.
    • Lobotomy
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/22/2017 8:33AM - in reply to rojo
      • Lobotomy
      • It's obvious that Goe gets testosterone massages from Salazar.
    • Mrr82
      registered
      • RE: Wow: Ken Goe says if you believe Alberto Salazar is a doper you must also believe USADA is inept 4/22/2017 9:14AM - in reply to rojo
      • Mrr82
        registered
      • rojo wrote:
        I really like Goe's work but don't agree with his logic on this one.

        Ken Goe wrote:
        It's hard to know whether to laugh or cry about the allegations against Salazar. They continue to linger because a two-year investigation by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency remains open while also apparently going nowhere.

        At this point, if you believe Salazar is cheating or has cheated you must also believe the USADA is inept.

        Here is a thought: in the absence of any actionable evidence, maybe it's reasonable to conclude he hasn't cheated.
        I totally get that if it's annoying for everyone (Salazar haters and lovers) that this has gone on so long, but I don't believe that if you think Salazar has cheated you have to think USADA is inept as well simply because nothing has been proven.

        I mean it's very hard to get convictions in this world. Lance Armstrong was accused of doping in 1999. He didn't get convicted until 2012. Bonds hit 70+ homers in 2001 but didn't get charged with anything until 2017.

        Hell, the thing that's frustrating for me is law enforcement raided Aden's hotel in Spain last June and we've had no convictions almost a year later. Stuff is very hard to prove (and yes Aden could be clean).

        Tons of athletes doped in the 1980s and 1990s and were never busted just like plenty of criminals commit crimes and never get bused. How often do I speed and never get busted? All the time.

        Here is the full article.

        http://www.oregonlive.com/trac...iver_index
        Rojo as always talking out his ...

        Steroids weren't banned in baseball in 2001. Can't imagine why someone wouldn't get caught for something that nobody was try to catch.

        He was also charged with stuff in 2007, not 2017. And try reading something...you obviously have no idea what he was charged on. He admitted he took drugs accidentally. They were trying to prove perjury.