FIrst a correction. Our results database was missing the 2:33. I looked at another database and she also did run 2:32:20 in 1992 so we've changed the article to say she only ran under 2:32 (not 2:36) once again.
False Equivalence wrote:
Joan Samuelson won an Olympic Gold. Last I checked Ryan Hall DNFd in his last Olympics. Samuelson, coming off knee surgery two weeks prior, qualified for the team and the won the Gold three months later.
Then there's this...
"She would only break 2:36 once again in her career – and that didn’t happen for another six years (2:26:54 in Boston in 1991)."
First of all 4th at Boston in an incredibly tight finish between 2nd and 4th is not something to be so easily dismissed. Secondly, what about '88 and '91 New York? Last I checked 2:33 and 2:36 were under 2:36 and 3rd and 6th seem pretty elite to me.
If you can say Ryan Hall and Joanie are equal, I think we might as well just say everyone else is equal too as it's a slippery slope to giving the same status to any marathon finisher...or DNF apparently.
Ok, I've merged two threads into one.
Shoebacca wrote:
The whole point was that we can cut a fast guy some slack for having a tough time persisting at his career. The dislike for Hall is unwarranted, especially given he and his wife's continued investment in the running community. If he stays active through to his masters years, then the comparison will have been apt.
I didn't do this in the article but I think you could equate them. No, in the public's mind you can't equate as Olympic gold is a lot better than "fastest white dude ever" but but maybe in a scientist's you could. I'd like to see a Sports Gene chapter on this.
jjjjj wrote:
There's just no similarity between the two, so it was a stupid equation intended solely to get hits. World record holder in the marathon, as well as probably multiple age group wr's, Olympic gold medalist, universally acknowledged as a class act, vs. an American half marathon record holder and fastest American born marathoner with idiosyncrasies and until recently no explanation for the sudden dropoff. I hope he gets back but you could have just said like many other marathoners, Hall is done before 30.
Hey, Ryan just had four kids all at once.
sneezy household wrote:
"The biggest difference is Joanie could run 11 minutes off her pb and almost make another Olympic team in 1992. Ryan can't."
Yes, and Joan started a family when she was possibly in her prime years.
I'm sure the cocaine for Bjorg didn't help. McEnroe had no motivatoin once his rival was gone.
Ltes Read wrote:
Not Just running , look at the great Björn Borg, done after 26 , Same with
John McEnroe. Read a great article about Borg, he said the physical drop off after your peak years is so steep , he could feel physical skills leaving week by week.
Benoit was competing against Grete Waitz.
rojo wrote:Shoebacca wrote:Ok, I've merged two threads into one.
The whole point was that we can cut a fast guy some slack for having a tough time persisting at his career. The dislike for Hall is unwarranted, especially given he and his wife's continued investment in the running community. If he stays active through to his masters years, then the comparison will have been apt.
Yes, you nailed it. Ryan Hall has had an INCREDIBLE career. That's what I wanted people to appreciate.I didn't do this in the article but I think you could equate them. No, in the public's mind you can't equate as Olympic gold is a lot better than "fastest white dude ever" but but maybe in a scientist's you could. I'd like to see a Sports Gene chapter on this.
jjjjj wrote:
There's just no similarity between the two, so it was a stupid equation intended solely to get hits. World record holder in the marathon, as well as probably multiple age group wr's, Olympic gold medalist, universally acknowledged as a class act, vs. an American half marathon record holder and fastest American born marathoner with idiosyncrasies and until recently no explanation for the sudden dropoff. I hope he gets back but you could have just said like many other marathoners, Hall is done before 30.
The fact of the matter is Joanie had it A LOT easier in 1985 than Hall has it nowadays.
Here's a stat for you that I just figured out.
Guess when the first Ethiopian woman broke 2:30 for the marathon?
Guess when the first Kenyan woman broke 2:30 for the marathon?
Fatuma Roba was the first Ethiopian woman to break 2:30 in the marathon. She did it in Rome (2:29:05) in March of 1996.
Angelina Kanana was the first Kenyan woman to break 2:30 in the marathon. That happened at Hamburg in April of 1994 (she ran 2:29:59).
So basically Joanie was competing against ZERO african competition zero.
Heck, I'll go a step further.
Guess when the first Japanese woman broke 2:30 for the marathon?
Misako Miyahara ran 2:29:37 in Osaka in 1988.
So she was one of the fastest North American/European woman of her era. Hall clearly is the fastest North American/European man of his era.
No non-African has come close to Hall's 2:04:58. The next best time from a non-African born runner is 2:06:05 for Ronaldo da Costa of Brazil. If you want to ignore that as Brazil certainly didn't have good women's marathoners when Joanie was competing, the next best time is 2:06:16 for Toshinari Takaoka which is 1-second better than Hall's non-winded aided best (2:06:17).