TRAINING

I think I know the identity of this post - and I think it removes a lot of the stigma around Geb and his methods. And I totally agree with the line about Geb not relying on drugs. If a totally clean Steve Jones can run low 2:07 in 1985, there is NO reason why the likes of Tergat, Limo et al can't be running 2:05, given their totally differet backgrounds.

Trained in Addis with Haile wrote:
Fellas,
Maybe i can add a little to this discussion as I did a month training at altitude in Addis a short time prior to his marathon debut in London.
I ran with Haile and the Ethiopian group (inc. NYC winner Tesfaye Jifar and Tesfaye Tola, Olympic Bronze medallist) on several occasions and chatted with Haile several times as well. I only did recovery runs with Haile and the group because they were too quick for me to keep up on workouts.
My observation would be that the 'laufen mit Haile...' OVERestimates Haile's total workload in terms of quality for sure and probably overestimates quantity too. I doubt he runs more than 130miles per week.
When i was there Haile ran 3 hard sessions per week - one track of the 1200 type described, a long tempo of about 20k run hard, and a long run of maybe 35k run hard.
Most of Haile's other running is very slow...but it is at 8000ft plus and on hilly terrain so those conditions are probably more significant stimulus than pace.
Haile ran 13x per week but i doubt it would be a specific or quantifiable as outlined in 'laufen mit Haile...' not least because few of the routes they run were or even are measurable. They run up and down mountain sides on very rough terrain much of the time so pace varies hugely thorughout any one run.
Typically Haile's main session is run in the morning, be that the workout for the day or the longest run of the day if it's a recovery day. The guys get up and run dead early, say 6am, because their farming background means that is the kind of hour they always wake. The AM run on an easy day was between 1hr - 1hr30 and the length over an hour seemed more to depend on if the guys had found a nice route and were enjoying their chat rather than aimed at hitting a pre-planned distance.
This relaxed approach was reflected in most of the Ethiopian training: They ran really hard during hard workouts and very easily on recovery runs. (For example we did one afternoon run of 31mins on the flat that was not even 4miles and that's not a typo because the pace was about 10mins per mile that day, almost walking.)
20mins before that 4mile easy run Haile and Jifar were eating fries in the cafe while laughing and joking. It was striking how, in contrast to European and American runners who are generally preoccupied and anal about exact splits, pace and distance, the Ethiopians just ran hard or easy and often.
At this point Haile reckoned he could run close to the World Half Marathon record - he had won the World Half in Bristol in 60.03 a few months before i was in Addis - and when i was there Haile said to me he was looking at race options to do so (although none turned out to be available).
And, by the way, I don't think Haile's on drugs. Haile's mechanics and ability and training venue and lifestyle are all waaaaaaayyyyy better than mine and i've run 28mins-odd for a track 10000m , so i don't find it hard to believe that Haile can run a good 2mins faster for 10k than i can without him needing drugs to do so.
Finally, i just remembered, as we finished one run there was one of the young Ethiopian guys standing on the other side of the road about to go training. Haile said to me, 'you see him, he's good'. He was pointing at the at-that-point unheralded Kenenisa Bekele...

Not having read the whole thread, I have a few things I want to say:

1) I have no idea if Rupp and Farah are clean. Yes, the thyroid thing gives me pause, too. On the other hand, no, I don't think Rupp's progression is suspicious. He ran 3:34 last year, so this mile PR was a big jump on paper only. As for running sub-13 and sub-27, well, I think those breakthroughs were overdue. They certainly didn't come after years of "struggling." Rupp's college years saw huge consistent development, and now I think he's showing the strength that comes from years and years of uninterrupted training.

2) I think it's one thing to "ask the question" about an athlete's cleanliness. Making vague accusations based on your personal inability to believe a time without any real credible evidence is bullsh*t, however. Looking an athlete like Solomon and saying "He had a breakthrough season, what's he on?" is the same thing Glenn Beck does when he says "Oh, well I'm not SAYING Obama is a Manchurian candidate out to destroy us all, I'm just ASKING what if he Is?" "Asking the question" can be a veiled personal attack and any adult should know that.

Are there suspicious things about athletes? Maggie Vessey tested positive for a banned diuretic- was it an innocent mistake or something more sinister? That's a good question to ask. I don't have any insight. When Tegenkamp, a few years ago, mentioned he was having blood-spinning done to help a tendon heal, was he doing something that's banned? Good question. Does Rupp's asthma/thyroid medication have an effect similar to banned substances, allowing his TUE to cover his use? I don't know either, but it's a good question.

Saying "Rupp couldn't run sub4 in the mile until 2009, now in 2013, he's faster. WHAT'S HE ON?!?!" is not asking a valid question, it's nothing more than a attack.

3) These boards are disgusting. The Brojos do a horrible job moderating, and seem to think elite athletes and coaches quitting the board in disgust is fine, and even evidence of "real dialogue" or something. Jack Daniels used to post all the time and answer questions and foster substantive debate. He was open about his research and his experiences with athletes most of us only got to read about. He also got run out of town on a rail. Lots of other great posters dealt with the same poisonous atmosphere and got shouted down by a mob of trolls. I don't know why the Brojos don't at least try to do a better job, instead of lauding anonymous people launching personal attacks and justifying it by saying so-and-so is a "public figure." As much as I find ADuck personally annoying, I largely agree with his points about this board being less and less civil and useful.

4) I don't think the Brojos understand that being a jerk and fostering "controversy" isn't doing squat for the sport. TMZ and Entertainment Television doesn't elevate journalism, the Sunday pundit bitchfests don't elevate political discourse, and the bunch of mean posts and pseudoarticles meant to attack athletes (I'm thinking the feature on Webb being mad after a race) certainly don't elevate running as a sport here.

Anyway, those are my 4 cents. Troll me as you willNot having read the whole thread, I have a few things I want to say:

Saying "Rupp couldn't run sub4 in the mile until 2009, now in 2013, he's faster. WHAT'S HE ON?!?!" is not asking a valid question, it's nothing more than a attack.

Anyway, those are my 4 cents. Troll me as you will. I hang around here for the weekly training thread and the occasional gem. They get tougher to find each year.

TRAINING

Of General Interest

This thread has already been deleted.

You have been subscribed.

TRAINING

Jump To A Page

Jump To A Page

Of General Interest

This thread has already been deleted.

Reply Replying to

You have been subscribed.