LAGAT BUSTED!!!! - Kenya Daily Nation Article

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Zat0pek wrote:

Phil. wrote:In fact if you look at the WR pace for say the 5k you'll see that it has improved at the same steady rate since the 20s!

But improvement in performance isn't linear. The performance curve will be steeper in the beginning and flatten out as we get closer to the limits. The fact that we haven't seen a great flattening out now that the record is 12:39 as opposed to when the record was, say, 15:39 is in and of itself eyebrow-raising.

Actually the data we have over the last century for all the running events shows that the improvement in WR pace (not time) by men has been linear from the sprints to the marathon (see Noakes, ch 11). There have been periods when the record has lagged behind the trend line, the most notable being the 40s, for obvious reasons. Usually such a lag is followed by a sudden burst of record breaking, the mid-50s, late 60s and mid 90s in the case of the 5k. This burst usually just gets back to the long term trend line. What was surprising, as someone else pointed out was that the record stood from 87-94, when it was broken by one sec! For the previous 15yrs the record had faithfully followed the trend line with small incremental changes but then progress stopped for 7 yrs, setting the stage for the 'burst' of the 90s. The data themselves that we have not yet reached a fundamental limit, there's no evidence of an asymptote.

Spieglestein wrote:

Spigelman wrote:

"Spiegelstein" - first of all I assume that we know each other and that you are a bastard.

No, you don't know me. You're just irritated because I have your number :).

Yup that's it... that and a few guys in college called me Speigelstein (not that it's all that original).

Chuckles wrote:

It's the TIP OF THE ICEBERG!

HahahaHAAAhaaHAAAhaaaa. It's all genetics. They work harder. They're gifted. AHhahaHHAAAhaahahhaaaaa!!

There's more fast (druggies) out there.

take away the drugs and put you on drugs and you will still be shite cant run away from that fact

Seneca Lassiter has spoken exclusively to LetsRun.com and allowed us to post his reaction to his former training partner's positive EPO test.

http://www.letsrun.com/2003/senecasreaction.php

Do you work for WADA?

I don't read that well and didn't read your post. Look how long it is! You read it. Listen to how dictatorial and self-righteous you are. You write about "innocent people have been put to death" "Death Row" "DNA evidence" ?..this is a running board. You are an authoritarian ideologue. I'm a corporal in a deployed Infantry Battalion and I have enough authority thank you.

Gat to watch what all haters what they gat to say especially them from uncle sam place coz we always beat them they been trying to outdo us even reducing our competing numbers and their dammn federal taxes which leaves a foreign runner with nothing out of his own sweat no wonder jorge torres sounded so naive about this case after finishing the LAST in world championship ,you think they were happy to see lagat on NIKE commercial dem jelous hater i doesnt matter we will always woop you asses now and even in sprints watch out! crackers! what do you know about walking ten miles to school? anything

Kenyans forever!

Tired of this sissy wrote:I don't know about Cadwallader's take on your sorry ass, but all we do is see you constantly bringing up race, and then running white people down. The guys that say you are full of self hate are correct. You are the typical example of a brainwashed college boy who's never set foot in the real world. Oh, you can make yourself feel good, just as you were taught in school, by making disparaging remarks about whites, and then looking around for approval from any non-white who may be standing by. "Didja hear me! I said 'Whitey is bad!', will you pat me on the head? I'll kiss your ass too."

The shrillness and panic you display over Lagat and Chepchumba being caught is quite revealing in terms of character. Or lack of.

Hey man, I am actually getting a little bored with exposing the ignorance of many of the posters on this thread, but, oh what hell, you are an easy target too, so here goes a point by point destruction of nearly every sentence you wrote:

1. Cadwallader?s ?take on my sorry ass? was misguided as yours. You both seem to think that anyone who mentions the words racism is automatically wrong?!?! He was implying that I was claiming racism over the charges against Lagat and nowhere did I say that. For the UMPTEENTH time I was angry about the many claims on this board that the Lagat & Chepchumba busts had absolutely and inarguably rendered ALL AFRICAN times as bogus, and labeled ALL AFRICAN runners as cheats. That?s bullshit. I displayed no ?shrillness and panic? over Lagat?s BUST, just abger over the egocentric & racist reaction that this bust means that USA distance runners and white distance runners are-really-the-best-afterall. Again, complete bullshit.

2. Nowhere am I ?running white people down.? I stated some facts: when it comes to running, the best whites are slower than the best blacks (take a look at the men?s records). How many are held by white guys?? ZERO. How many by black: ALL of them. How many over 400m are held by US guys? Zero. I am not celebrating this fact, but just saying to the racists and nationalists: Lagat?s bust does not change that. There are cheaters of every race, color, sex, and nationality. That blacks are better runners does not bother me or make me happy. But it bothers me that some people can not accept it. How does this make me ?full of self hate? ??? How about you?.can you accept the current reality of black?s superiority in running, or do you need to find excuse and lies to say that it is not really true (such as: all blacks cheat, all African distance runners cheat, USA is # 1 in everything, now we finally know why Kennedy could not win a gold medal, etc, etc, ad nauseum)

3. ?typical example of a brainwashed college boy who's never set foot in the real world.? HA HA HA !!!! WAAAAAAYYYY OFF!! I?ve been out of college for 10 years, and in the ?real world? that long, and hardly brainwashed. I love you idiots and your mantra of: ?all colleges teach liberal lies that do not exist in the REAL BUSINESS WORLD, where men are men, and whites know the truth: it is the WHITE MALE who suffers prejudice, not the so-called minorities. BUSINESS is GOD!? You are the delusional one playing grown-up.

4. ?you can make yourself feel good, just as you were taught in school by making disparaging remarks about whites, and then looking around for approval from any non-white.? Wow, what a complete dumbass you are. ?Taught in school? ?? Um, I must have slept through that class. And none of my comments were made in order to impress black people, that?s pretty silly because there are what, like 3 of them on this board?

Prejudice, idiocy, refusal to accept reality, & extreme nationalistic pride piss me off?..period. I guess that DOES say something about my character. You might not be prejudiced, but you do come off as an idiot par excellence.

Thios is for SENECA, Pleas eI need to know where you stand in the reaction to this case, u totally confused me since you earlier criticize him of running like 30min run and yet when it comes to competing he runs fast, so my question is, "A TRUE RRIEND YOU"?????????? U later show support and belief that he is clean, I need an answer, It is not just me who noticed it but others too and they are curious to know it too.

LA/pure running wrote:

?typical example of a brainwashed college boy who's never set foot in the real world.? HA HA HA !!!! WAAAAAAYYYY OFF!! I?ve been out of college for 10 years, and in the ?real world? that long, and hardly brainwashed. I love you idiots and your mantra of: ?all colleges teach liberal lies that do not exist in the REAL BUSINESS WORLD, where men are men, and whites know the truth: it is the WHITE MALE who suffers prejudice, not the so-called minorities. BUSINESS is GOD!? You are the delusional one playing grown-up.

Yes, whites are discriminated against in the real world, at least in the US. But I think the other guys are right about you. Business is God sounds a lot like what some Bolshevist would spout trying to be sarcastic. Being out of college for 10 years doesn't have anything to do with anything that was written by anyone about you. You should take a close look at your posts. They would tell you a lot about why so many people dislike you, or dislike your posts. The drug factor may very well be one reason you don't see any American or Europeans holding records over 400 meters on the track. It's not an implausible by any means.

Ignore him. He's a weepy, testosterone challenged male. He needs help, not insults.

(Oh yeah, of course I meant Ben Johnson getting busted did not change the fact that WEST Africans are naturally dominant in the sprints. I seem to have dyslexia with that.)

Anyway, hate away bigots, but a single Kenyan male getting busted does not taint of all of East Africa in my mind. I am sure it does in yours.

Let's review the cheaters shall we??

Chinese swimmers got busted, so all of Asia is guilty in all endurance sports by association.

Baumann got busted, and we know about the swimmer Michele Smith from Ireland, and of course the Euro bicyclists, and yes the Winter Olympics had Muehlegg, the "Spanish" skier, and of course Larissa Lazutina and Olga Danilova also getting busted, so....all of Europe & the Eastern Bloc is tainted in ALL endurance sports. (Eastern Bloc....don't get me started).

South America and Australia?. Any big cheats from there yet? Well, we know the South Americans are dishonest, right? And the Australians have criminality in their veins, correct??

So I guess the good Ol' USA is the only CLEAN nation in the world, right??? This is what you want to desperately want to hear, RIGHT??? Oh sure, Carl Lewis tested positive for something, and Jerome Young, and White, and then there was FLOJO?., and the rumors about Athletic West. Well then, what are we left with?

CHEATERS EVERYWHERE IN EVERY NATION OF EVERY COLOR. Kinda evens things out, huh?

The East African distance runners and the West African heritage sprinters still rule in this environment. Eliminate ALL the cheaters?..SAME THING.

So get over it. Nothing has changed.

(and once again, the idiot posting all the hate against Africa is the same person, look at all the ?new? names that pop up on this and other similar threads. You fooling no one. SELF HATE?.PC???? What the f*** are you talking about??? Is simply about using your f***ing brain and not your hatred/USA rules ego/racism)

BULLSHIT Paulo. CAN YOU FUCKING READ?!?!

MANY, MANY, MANY OF THE "AFRICANS ARE CHEATING" THREADS SAID THE FOLLOWING: the Africans get away with cheating because of whites ?self-hate?, PC propaganda, and such, and that we are all brainwashed to believe that the little smiling African must be pure. And THEN?.the finger is pointed at East African/Moroccan runners and US Black sprinters. And THEN a statement such as this is made: ?Ask yourself WHO IT IS YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO CRITICIZE, then ask yourself "why?". Then you'll know who is in charge, and who is playing dirty. This holds true in most areas of life. ?

WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN???? Does someone have to pull out f***ing Hooked on Phonics for you????? Apparently so.

Name ONE thing I wrote that is racist. I KNEW the Irish swimmer Michele Smith was guilty(goes from also-ran to THE BEST without having an indoor Olympic pool in her country!!!!) and the ?Spanish? skier looked reaaaaal suspect. Both got busted. Both white. Are there black cheaters?? OF course!! Ben J, FloJoIMHPO (IMHO), etc, etc. They are everywhere.

One male Kenyan who spends most of his time in the USA got busted. What big mystery does that solve for you??? Not much to me, just another cheater. BIIIIIIG surprise.

I don?t think cheating is a race thing, but others on this board do.

Why is is a "watershed" event?? Are you suggesting it will be the end of the African dominance??? Just wondering. Other big names have gotten busted before as you said, nothing changed. There have been, still are, and always will be cheaters and honest competitors. When the dust clears, blacks will dominate the sprints and the distance events.

I am white, and have no self-hate. I just like to deal in reality, not innuendo, or bias, or pronouncements of guilt by association, or mass accusations of entire continents due to a few cheaters. Case by Case.

Wow! You really backed up your reply to Phil with some hard evidence, you f***ing tool!

Good point but there is a very simple answer:

Athletes are not avoiding testing, it's simply difficult for testers to find an athlete (99.9% don't live in cities) so what they have is an "address" which reads; Go 10km outside Eldoret towards Iten. At Rock Center village take right at cow pasture and follow 3km down dirt road.Take sharp left at 2nd hill. Go straight 3km and then ask for owner of fruit stand to take you to brick dwelling.

Tell me testers won't have problems. What's more, the athlete might have taken a trip that day by matutu or truck to reach his girlfriend's place or to visit family (which takes the whole day) and since the testers want to perform a surprise test, they don't get in contact or try to call before coming (and that's "if" the athlete has a home phone or a mobile).

This is the heart of Africa, and the "upcountry" of Kenya, not #212 Cherry Lane, Stockton, CA.

Ngugi is another story. Nothing against the guy but he was not that bright and he was in the army. I've been told that certain people in the Kenyan military are taught to never answer questions. Also, just picture it;

A couple of white guys (muzungu) arrive to your place announced and one asks you to piss in a cup. What would any normal person do in that situation and culture? That's correct kids, tell them to f*** off! Now, let's remember that Ngugi's English was not that great (this is already a 3rd language at best for a lot of these guys...and many of them never even went to school).

And, oh yeah, this was some years back before the IAAF's "out of competition programme". It's not like it was clearly announced to Ngugi that he'd be taking pee samples from time to time back in his village from Fritz and Curtis.

The testers should have been more understanding or should have had Kenyan testers who might have been able to explain the situation better. Maybe then Ngugi would have complied.

Hey, it's not like the Greeks that jumped the fence while their trainer beat the testers...

And yes, I do know for sure. This is my job

A nice little history from LetsRun.com readers, regarding one of our favorite subjects.

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