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 Where Your Dreams Become Reality |
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You are reporting the following post to the moderators for review and possible removal from the forum Poster: rekrunner Subject: RE: Renato Canova - Arthur Lydiard Coaches Roundtable Body: Antonio, Name calling? Really? Parrot? Ignorant? Analphabet? Hypocrite? Straight and simple? From you? I won't go into these personal comments, except to say you are wrong on all counts. But let's address some of the other points you raised. My Canova comment -- Canova didn't mention it, why should I?: Here is the initial Canova quote, to which I responded. Canova wrote:
Here's my direct reply to that specific comment: rekrunner wrote:
Canova only mentions "intensity". He doesn't mention increasing "volume", or running "faster and longer", in his comment. Although I have a good understanding of also increasing the volume, I don't see why it's appropriate to mention these things in my direct reply to that specific comment that doesn't mention these things. And my comment only says Lydiard's "easy long run" get faster over time. Regarding my lack of references: I provided you many references that say things like "long/hard followed by short/easy", and "short/easy gives your body a chance to recover and consolidate", and "many variations rejected except for the one I recommend now". The combination of all these things really suggest against "best aerobic pace" everyday. The example schedule I gave (and that you gave), shows only 1 day (Friday) at "best aerobic pace". If we are generous, maybe 2 more days (Monday and Wednesday). The remaining days are easy efforts, hardly trying. I've claimed for 8 pages that these can not reasonably be considered "best aerobic pace". This is what's behind my request for a reference, a conversation you jumped into the middle of, probably oblivious that it was going on for several pages already. Your "thread ending" "Lydiard by Lydiard" example only re-affirms my position (see below). You are looking for loopholes to touch this "best aerobic pace", e.g. last mile of every run, and faulting me for not finding a quote that exactly forbids all of your creative scenarios. These scenarios are all very far from the main line of what Lydiard recommends in every reference, including yours, for the reasons I gave in the quotes I provided. I don't think I can find a direct Lydiard quote that precisely forbids doing workouts on a bicycle, either. We have to draw some kind of reasonable boundary around the main recommendations. Modifying an example from 1-3 "best aerobic pace" workouts a week to 7 "best aerobic pace" workouts week, seems excessively unreasonable. But if you think you've found a way that meets all the Lydiard variety requirements, and provides adequate recovery, then I have nothing more to say about that. The mathematics of fractional efforts: Let's look at your "Lydiard by Lydiard" reference a little more deeply, and try to make sense of the paces related to fractional efforts. Lydiard defines "best aerobic pace" and "best aerobic as "just under (maximum) steady state". There is still some fuzziness, because of "just under", but usually "steady state" is something like a 1-hour tempo run, but I'll look at some other possibilities too. For good runners, this is something around 10-13 mile pace. Let's say for now, "just under" means "12-15" mile pace. Lydiard also says to run "faster aerobic paces" everyday. This is a different term, which is undefined. But he gives an example of what he means with a weekly marathon conditioning schedule. I will also propose what kind of paces are we talking about with these fractional efforts, suggesting what I think is a reasonable, if not generous, range: Mon - 10 miles at 1/2 effort - 16-20 mile pace? Tue - 15 miles at 1/4 effort - 30-45 mile pace? Wed - 12 miles at 1/2 effort - 19-24 mile pace? Thur - 18 miles at 1/4 effort - 36-54 mile pace? Fri - 10 miles at 3/4 effort - 12 mile pace? Sat - 22 miles at 1/4 effort - 44-66 mile pace? Sun - 15 miles at 1/4 effort - 30-45 mile pace? We could spend a lot of time trying to negotiate and refine these numbers, but we don't really need to do that to form some basic conclusions. The problem here, is still the phrase "best aerobic pace", which has been equated to "just under steady state". "Just under" leaves this particular point still subject to personal interpretation. How much under is still considered "just under"? I see three possibilities: 1) In my frank opinion, only Friday can be called "best aerobic pace", because it is run at something close to 1 hour tempo pace. 2) If we want to be generous, and say "best aerobic pace" is really 1-2 hour race pace, we might also include Monday and Wednesday as "best aerobic pace". 3) The remaining days, at 1/4 effort are all aerobic runs surely slower than marathon pace. Saturday may be 30,45,60 seconds slower/km than marathon pace. (A common Lydiard example is the 3:15/km marathon pace athlete who runs long runs in 3:45/km pace). The only way to conclude that Lydiard recommends "best aerobic pace" "everyday", is to relax the definition of "best aerobic pace" to include a broad range from +/-12 mile pace to marathon pace + 30 (or more) seconds/km, as if the term really only serves to distinguish these "faster" aerobic paces from the problematic and misunderstood LSD acronym. Hit the submit button below if you want us to review the post. If you feel this is urgent or want a reply, email us at letsrun@letsrun.com about the post and please include a link to the thread the post is on and what page number/post on that page it is
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