University of Michigan

US News and World Report 2005 Rankings of National Universities

1. Harvard University (MA)

Princeton University (NJ)

3. Yale University (CT)

4. University of Pennsylvania

5. Duke University (NC)

Massachusetts Inst. of Technology

Stanford University (CA)

8. California Institute of Technology

9. Columbia University (NY)

Dartmouth College (NH)

11. Northwestern University (IL)

Washington University in St. Louis

13. Brown University (RI)

14. Cornell University (NY)

Johns Hopkins University (MD)

University of Chicago

17. Rice University (TX)

18. University of Notre Dame (IN)

Vanderbilt University (TN)

20. Emory University (GA)

21. University of California – Berkeley *

22. Carnegie Mellon University (PA)

University of Michigan – Ann Arbor *

University of Virginia *

25. Georgetown University (DC)

Univ. of California – Los Angeles *

27. Wake Forest University (NC)

28. Tufts University (MA)

29. U. of North Carolina – Chapel Hill *

30. Univ. of Southern California

Among Public only Universities

Top Public National Universities

1. University of California–Berkeley

2. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor

University of Virginia

Walk ons pay up to $30,000per year.

Out of State....maybe

in state tuition is pretty expensive too, relatively speaking, for in state students compared to in state tuitions at Michigan's peer public univerisities: UC-Berkeley, UVa, UCLA, UNC-Chapel Hill.

I shall attempt to answer your questions:

The academics will push you. At UM you are dealing with a big public college, so there are a lot of people but also many available classes. The nice thing abuot UM is that you can major in many different programs and still get a great education, as there are many great programs from Engineering to Business.

I'm majoring in Econ and Psychology and I find both different diciplines challenging, perhaps the Econ is more challenging for me because it requires some serious number crunching (not my specialty).

As for the 1500 vs. 5k question, I think you should know that Ron (the head cross and track coach at UM) is very knowledgeable about coaching the 5k /10k distance. In cross country, everyone does workouts geared toward 10k cross country, and on the track there are separate groups for 800 / 1500 / 5k&10k. So if you are worried about doing hard miler type workouts with milers, you will not be doing that (unless you decide to become a miler). I personally feel that Ron has the ability to develop great 5k runners (the current US champion in the 5k is coached by Ron).

The school is very expensive. If you are from the state of Michigan, there may be some help for you financially. I am not from Michigan, however I chose to go to Michigan because it was an opportunity that I could not pass up. The thing that drew me to the school was that there was great school pride within the town of Ann Arbor, in my mind the coach was a good fit for me, and the academics were strong.

I hope your search for a university goes well, and if you have more specific questions about the coach, I suggest you call Ron yourself or talk individually to guys on the team if possible. Ron is a great coach, but the question you should ask yourself should be: Is the right coach for YOU.

Good Luck

Todd

Well put, Todd. The academics at U-M are excellent, with most programs ranking pretty high nationally.

As for Ron, you should know that before a few of us came along in the early nineties (Sully being the leader, of course), Ron Warhurst was known mainly for being a cross country coach, and a 5k/10k coach. In fact, I remember people telling me that he was NOT a milers' coach.

Greg Meyer (Boston Marathon Champ), the Donakowskis (USA 10k Champs), Brian Diemer (Olympic S/C medalist), Chris Brewster (NCAA Runner-up), John Scherer (NCAA 10k champ), Brad Barquist ('96 Olympian 10k)... Ron had coached for 20 years before he had his second sub-4 miler (I believe Diemer was his 1st). In the last 12 years, he has had close to 10.

That doesn't mean he forgot how to coach distance runners.

good point mack.

Hey Mack, who are you?

I am curious who the 10 sub 4 mlers would be. I am assuming that you are not includint the guy's that already broke 4:00 before moving to Michigan.

Ok, just off the top of my head:

There was me (Scott MacDonald, for whoever asked who I was earlier), Kevin Sullivan, John Mortimer (not sure if Mort officially got under or not, but he was certainly capable), Jay Cantin, Alan Webb, Nathan Brannen, Nick Willis, Andrew Ellerton, Mike Woods...

That's 9 that I can think of. As for the guys that had already run under 4, Sully has gone on to 5th in the Olympics and ran 3:31, Nate was a several time NCAA champ and 3:36 in the 1500m despite not really running many until this year, we all know the Webb story, and Willis has gone 3:32. So what is it that Ron is not accomplishing with these guys?

Forgotten in these discussions are guys like Don McLaughlin (4:02) and Rondell Ruff (4:04). They came in as decent in-state milers, and went on to be solid Big Ten performers.

I am sorry some of you have a hate on for Ronnie because clearly, you have never spent a moment in conversation with him. Should he apologize for recruiting great talent? I don't think so. And he has developed that talent enough to put 3 of those guys in the World Championship semi-finals at the same time (Webb is in there too, but Ron only coached him for one year, so I did not include him).

Webb never went sub 4 while at Michigan. In fact, after leaving, it took him a year to recover from all the random shit he received while under Warhurst.

go uva!! number 2 public in the nation!

That is such crap. He never wanted to run in college and he never left Razcko. He was on the phone to him constantly. He could have succeeded at Michigan just as all of the other great high school milers have, but he was impatient. Similar to his race tactics.

Webb has phenomenal talent and will have an excellent career, but he needs to learn a little patience. To blame Ron's training on any problems Webb had would mean that Sullivan, Broe, Willis, Diemer, Brannen, etc. were flukes. In fact, at the 2 NCAA Championships that Webb competed in, he threw Ron's race plans out the window and did his own thing. I hope he does well, I really do, but in order to succeed, you have to learn from your mistakes. We will see today if he learned a lesson on Saturday.

that would be #3 public university behind Berkeley and Michigan.

runner30948785794320-q2 wrote:

go uva!! number 2 public in the nation!

Mack wrote:

That is such crap. He never wanted to run in college and he never left Razcko. He was on the phone to him constantly. He could have succeeded at Michigan just as all of the other great high school milers have, but he was impatient. Similar to his race tactics.

Well said Mack. NBrannen would be witness to all those phone calls as AWebb's freshman dorm roommate.

Would a foreign runner really have to pay up to $30,000 per annum?If ur a 4.40 miler would u pay less?What would u have to be running to get a full scholarship?

i meant 4.20

i only have a pr for 1500 of 4.14,so i wont get a dime!$30000 IS ALOT!

I don't know Warhurst, so I'll defer to you, Mack. I didn't think much of his public comments about Webb, but there's no doubt that he's a world class coach. From an outsider's perspective, it seemed like he and Webb were both impatient/intolerant with each other. (Way outsider's perspective.)

I wouldn't be quick to blame Warhurst for Webb's problems -- and I don't think Webb did. Many guys find the transition to college running hard, and I think coaches and athletes would both be wise to recognize that.

On the other hand, it would be a stretch to give Warhurst any of the credit for Webb's development. (Which I don't think you've done.) I do think your criticism of Webb lacking patience is questionable. He is eager to succeed, but he was patient coming back from his injuries (unlike many world class runners, e.g., Ritz). He seems to have been very patient in his training this year. And his frontrunning in the WCs seems clearly to be premeditated -- and, IMO, smart.