This is totally untrue. I was there in the first row at that corner of the track. And i reviewed videos. The response time was excellent. True, if an EMT was sitting in the middle of lane 4 waiting with an AED it would have been faster, but she was there by 2 minutes and he was not out immediately-in fact they had him on his side at 1:50. I could go on-there has been a ridiculous amount of hyperbole about the poor response. The woman who did the bulk of the CPR should be getting huge praise.
I was there. My daughter ran in the meet. My wife and I were down on the 3rd floor concourse. A guy ran out from the track to where we were and said, "help, we need a doctor immediately!" From what I understand, doctors in the audience immediately ran over to assist until the medical staff arrived. We couldn't see what was going on because they would not let anyone else on into the main track area. The last we heard was that he had a pulse when them took him away. Wishing he and his family a full recovery. I truly there was an underlying health condition that brought on his incident. They said he had mentioned to family and friends that he had not been feeling well.
Like they say: Just do it! wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
Are you literally suggesting that bystanders should just watch a person die instead of attempting CPR...?
Well put. I realize it's not medically accurate, but it's not a stretch to say that people who need CPR are already dead. Without CPR, they are going to stay that way.
PS Plus now that it's all about chest compressions, there's no "yuck" factor.
When did they change this? When I was trained 6 months ago it was still 2 breaths 30 compressions.
I Chose D2 wrote:
Like they say: Just do it! wrote:
Well put. I realize it's not medically accurate, but it's not a stretch to say that people who need CPR are already dead. Without CPR, they are going to stay that way.
PS Plus now that it's all about chest compressions, there's no "yuck" factor.
When did they change this? When I was trained 6 months ago it was still 2 breaths 30 compressions.
You took an outdated course then. This has been the case for some time now.
C3PR wrote:
I Chose D2 wrote:
When did they change this? When I was trained 6 months ago it was still 2 breaths 30 compressions.
You took an outdated course then. This has been the case for some time now.
Recertified this past November; 3 courses in past 4 years via Red Cross. Two breaths, 30 chest compressions. Proper Crash bags are equipped with a face mask to aid with breaths.
Because some people fear giving the breaths due to possible exposure to contagions and therefore may forgo doing any CPR, public announcements have been made advising to at least perform the chest compressions, as it is better than nothing. However standard protocol still calls for two breaths to every 30 chest compressions (15 compressions for infants/children).
I am going to guess that he has thyrotoxicosis given his exophthalmos.
CPR Certified wrote:
Recertified this past November; 3 courses in past 4 years via Red Cross. Two breaths, 30 chest compressions. Proper Crash bags are equipped with a face mask to aid with breaths.
Because some people fear giving the breaths due to possible exposure to contagions and therefore may forgo doing any CPR, public announcements have been made advising to at least perform the chest compressions, as it is better than nothing. However standard protocol still calls for two breaths to every 30 chest compressions (15 compressions for infants/children).
The course you took is out of date. Research is showing it takes like 2 min of compressions just to get the blood moving. 30-2 method you are trained in doesn't move the blood as well as continuous compressions. And, there is enough time residual O2 in lungs to keep you alive. Moving the blood is the most important. This is the way CPR courses have been for several years.
Twice certified Red-Cross lifeguard with over 3 years experience...most recently certified May, 2018. Standard is still 30 compressions and 2 ventilations. We were required to carry one way valve facemask with us but in an emergency I would still do the ventilations. Its so unlikely that anything bad will happen from it. Despite what they may say it is still important to re-oxyginate the blood being circulated by the chest compressions. There's a reason why every ambulance and lifeguard unit has a BVD. Ventilations are important.
runn wrote:
Rojo, I'm not surprised if there was not an AED machine at the outdoor track at Cornell because there's nowhere to store one, but was there really not one close by in Barton? I would have thought there would for sure be one somewhere on the same floor as the indoor track.
I coached Cross-Country in Upstate NY (not far from Cornell) we HAD to have portable AED's with us for meets and other contests off the high school campus.
The law states that one has to be within a certain distance (1 or 2 minutes run) from the field of play.
There were always trainers at our meets and I would guess they carried an AED (I never saw one, but when we have meets at our HS now, our trainer always has one and I hardly ever see it). I guess I was thinking more about practice. We probably didn't have an AED machine very close while at practice. There probably was an AED machine close by for indoor practice though. Thanks for prompting me to clarify.
Interesting piece on the incident in RW. Notice the repeated and curious use of “immediate” to describe the response. They say the shot putters “immediately” started clearing the area. BS.
https://www.runnersworld.com/news/amp26287737/kemoy-campbell-collapses-millrose-games/
Why the 400 and girls' mile? wrote:
What I want to know is why the 400 and girl's mile was more important to the Armory and NBC than Kemoy's well being?
The announcers nor the clerks had no idea what was going on with Kemoy, so they were simply doing their job. The clerks who bring the next event out to the track really do not know what is happening out on the track. They knew the 3000 had finished and it was time to bring the next race out.
I am not even sure NBC knew what was going on and they had dead time and needed something to happen so it was TV NOT the announcers or clerks who were pushing for an event to go on.
I refuse to post a link to it because it is so sick but have you seen the tweet by Flotrak updating people on Kemoy's condition? They used a photo of him being wheeled away and you can clearly see his face.
Flotrak you have fallen to a new low and this is totally sick and disgusting. I had very little respect for you before this and now have lost that.
dbsquirtNXC21 wrote:
Twice certified Red-Cross lifeguard with over 3 years experience...most recently certified May, 2018. Standard is still 30 compressions and 2 ventilations. We were required to carry one way valve facemask with us but in an emergency I would still do the ventilations. Its so unlikely that anything bad will happen from it. Despite what they may say it is still important to re-oxyginate the blood being circulated by the chest compressions. There's a reason why every ambulance and lifeguard unit has a BVD. Ventilations are important.
From the latest (2015) AHA Guidelines:
Untrained lay rescuers should provide compression-only (Hands-Only) CPR, with or without dispatcher guidance, for adult victims of cardiac arrest...
WHY: Compression-only CPR is easy for an untrained rescuer to perform and can be more effectively guided by dispatchers over the telephone. Moreover, survival rates from adult cardiac arrests of cardiac etiology are similar with either compression only CPR or CPR with both compressions and rescue breaths when provided before EMS arrival. However, for the trained lay rescuer who is able, the recommendation remains for the rescuer to perform both compressions and breaths.
Excellent post. Ill add a bit
When working up any syncope (loss of consciousness) in a young healthy male its important to determine if its neurological or cardiovascular. In this case it appears to be cardiogenic due to CPR given by EMTs. I would love to see this athletes EKG or rhythm strip in the field if available. Hypothermia protocol also tips toward cardiogenic syncope.
During a code blue resuscitation you attach AED pads to the patient nd the AED will analyze the underlying rhythm. If asystole is present or flatline, continue CPR without using the AED. If a shockable rhythm is present then you will defibrillate. Point being is if the pads are on you dont always shock the patient.
Interesting case it could be new onset seizures, as you said viral myocarditis, hyprotrophic cardiomyopathy, wolff parkinson white syndrome, severe low sodium, afib with RVR, pulmonary embolism, the list could go on and on.
Hoping for the best
I disagree. I witnessed a very slow response time. All in our section viewed what was unfolding with horror as time is critical in these situations. The AED arrived I estimate more than 5 minutes after Kemoy collapsed. This was not what any of us would want if we were in his place. To put it kindly, the response appeared to us seating nearby to be haphazard and no protocol for a serious issue such as a cardiac event appeared to be in place.
If you didn't see the update from his brother from the youtube video we've put it here:
To clarify this business:
After a cardiac arrest, unless the person is immediately responsive, the standard is to induce hypothermia for 48 hours. During this time, the person is totally sedated - the term medically induced coma is appropriate - propofol is often used. This protocol improves neurologic outcomes. This hypothermia protocol is used regardless of the initial CT results. So it ends up being 48 hours of waiting before one can tell anything at all about recovery. Then rewarm, lessen the sedation, and hope for the best. I certainly am hoping for the best for Kemoy - the next day will be crucial.
Learn CPR! It is an enormous privilege to know how to save a life and anyone can do it. Hands only (no breaths) is easy to remember, and will work well for people who are witnessed to go down while you assign another person to call for EMS and find a nearby AED if available. Act quick! Don’t hesitate. I fully expect to accidentally do CPR on a person with a (faint) pulse by the time I’m done with my career and that is better than all the others waiting even a few extra crucial seconds to get blood circulating.
What the AHA says wrote:
However, for the trained lay rescuer who is able, the recommendation remains for the rescuer to perform both compressions and breaths.
MDMD wrote:
To clarify this business:
After a cardiac arrest, unless the person is immediately responsive, the standard is to induce hypothermia for 48 hours. During this time, the person is totally sedated - the term medically induced coma is appropriate - propofol is often used. This protocol improves neurologic outcomes. This hypothermia protocol is used regardless of the initial CT results. So it ends up being 48 hours of waiting before one can tell anything at all about recovery. Then rewarm, lessen the sedation, and hope for the best. I certainly am hoping for the best for Kemoy - the next day will be crucial.
Learn CPR! It is an enormous privilege to know how to save a life and anyone can do it. Hands only (no breaths) is easy to remember, and will work well for people who are witnessed to go down while you assign another person to call for EMS and find a nearby AED if available. Act quick! Don’t hesitate. I fully expect to accidentally do CPR on a person with a (faint) pulse by the time I’m done with my career and that is better than all the others waiting even a few extra crucial seconds to get blood circulating.
A worthwhile video to watch on Fabrice Muamba, the soccer player, who went into cardiac arrest during a game in 2012, and whose heart stopped beating. Most of the video involves the cardiologist who helped save his life (including a discussion of lowering his temperature once they finally got his heart functioning) .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcsmHRe2h34