The lozenges are currently virtually impossible to detect, hence WRs keep improving.
The lozenges are currently virtually impossible to detect, hence WRs keep improving.
I didn't find much discussion about elite performance. I did find confirmation of a strong belief, especially from Conte, who seems to be the televangelist equivalent of a spokesman for the power of doping. I don't see any connection between the provisional suspension of a former female Tokyo marathon winner, and the historical doping of elite male sprinters. For the record, I didn't ever express doubt about steroids for sprinters. Regarding Joyner's comment: "people fail to recognize about doping in general is that it facilitates harder training", perhaps one main reason is the lack of studies on this topic, that clearly show: - quantitatively that a higher training load is possible, and - qualitatively the delta effect of such an increased training load. How can anyone succeed to recognize something without first looking at it?
Lets Tell It Like It Is wrote:
Some interesting info on doping & elite performance:
rekrunner wrote:
I didn't find much discussion about elite performance.
I did find confirmation of a strong belief, especially from Conte, who seems to be the televangelist equivalent of a spokesman for the power of doping.
I don't see any connection between the provisional suspension of a former female Tokyo marathon winner, and the historical doping of elite male sprinters.
For the record, I didn't ever express doubt about steroids for sprinters.
Yes...I know your position on androgens and sprinters as well androgens and female mid-d runners. I thought the rEPO connection to sprinters was interesting considering the numerous sprinters that over the years have tested positive or admiited to using it sometime during their career. On Conte; I don't why you brush him off - don't you think he might know thing or two about PEDs & elite performance? Don't you think you're being a bit obstinate in blowing off doping experts so quickly?
And since Dr. Joyner was referenced & quoted in the article, I found something also interesting that touches on the debate of non-elite vs elite benefits of blood manipulation:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/does-blood-doping-even-work-153660191/"In nearly every sport, high-profile athletes—from Flo Jo to Lance Armstrong—have taken performance-enhancing drugs to compete with the rest of their field and set off doping scandals. And as if the shame of being caught wasn’t enough to make these athletes regret their decisions, there’s another catch. Those drugs might not actually be performance enhancing. A recent study found no evidence that using blood doping drugs gives elite athletes any advantage.
Discovery writes:
In a review study published today in the British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology, Cohen and his colleagues sifted through existing studies of EPO’s effect on athletic performance. His main complaint is that these studies did not use elite athletes, rather study subjects who were “moderately trained athletes.” As a result, the effects of EPO in high-level races have not been well understood, he explained.
Basically, the researchers argue that, for someone who’s just a regular athlete, blood doping works. There are all sorts of studies that show that things like erythropeitin (EPO) increase the amount of oxygen a regular body can take in and use. But in elite athletes, that effect disappears. Or, at least, that’s what the study claims. Others disagree. Discovery spoke with Michael Joyner, who studies elite athletes. He says that just because so many top athletes haven’t participated in these studies, it doesn’t mean that EPO doesn’t work on them. Discovery again:
“It’s like a red line in a car,” Joyner said about the difference between elite athletes and those participating in the previous EPO studies. “The red line is the same, but if you give them more horsepower (in this case EPO), you’re going to go faster,” said Joyner.
"This claim has been made before, too. In the 1980s, researchers claimed that steroids didn’t enhance elite athlete performances. But anyone who’s seen Mark McGwire bat knows that’s simply not true. And if doping really didn’t do anything, why risk it?"
Lets Tell It Like It Is wrote:
On Conte; I don't why you brush him off - don't you think he might know thing or two about PEDs & elite performance? Don't you think you're being a bit obstinate in blowing off doping experts so quickly?
He loves to play opposite day, brushing off the experience of hands-on experts (in this thread alone Schumacher, Ashenden, Parisotto, Joyner, Conte) and users like Jeptoo as belief, and selling his belief - while being far removed from elite running as well as the relevant science - as fact.
Ridiculo.
Samson Kagia is now associated with athletica sandro calvesi. Not sure if Lyana Calvesi personally coaches him or not.
Coevett wrote:
Bluesky wrote:
Kenya has right now 35 athletes suspended for doping from a 2 year to 8 year ban.
Crazy.
So I think that's four cases already this year. Two final decisions - Lucy Kabuu Wangui and Jemimah Jelagat Sumgong. Two provisional suspensions - Samson Mungai Kagia and Sarah Chepchirchir. And we're barely into February. This bunch are the marathoners who have failed tests last fall- so the track athlete doping busts haven't even started yet.
It's not looking good for El K's prediction that Kenyan busts will start to decline.
We should all try to guess the number of busts this year, and see who was closest to getting right when the final tally is made.
I would guess between 15 - 20 this year. I would also guess at least three World or Olympic medalists.
I'm hoping also to see a few Ethiopian busts finally as well.
That scarnio would be catastrophic for Kenya. It's already bad enough right now. For example, If Kiprop's doping positive is upheld and he's banned, then that's a huge negative for Kenya and will have aftershocks. And Bett, who I thought had a real promising future, already took his hit and is officially banned for 4 yrs. I wonder if he'll ever be able to come back from something like this...he seems like a nice kid.
It's nothing short of shell shock at the number and caliber of these Kenyan doping cases. Now they've become the brunt of jokes and scorn on many running forums. That use to be reserved for the Russians and Moroccans where doping seemed to common place and we all became desensitized by it over time.
What went wrong in Kenya? ? A proud nation that takes it's distance running serious and has created a legacy second to none all in jeopardy now because prevalent doping.
Unbelievable I say!.....
In this thread alone? You must be confused. I note that many routinely dismiss the hands-on experience of Renato -- while likewise being so far removed from both elite running and relevant science.
casual obsever wrote:
Lets Tell It Like It Is wrote:
On Conte; I don't why you brush him off - don't you think he might know thing or two about PEDs & elite performance? Don't you think you're being a bit obstinate in blowing off doping experts so quickly?
He loves to play opposite day, brushing off the experience of hands-on experts (in this thread alone Schumacher, Ashenden, Parisotto, Joyner, Conte) and users like Jeptoo as belief, and selling his belief - while being far removed from elite running as well as the relevant science - as fact.
Ridiculo.
On Conte, help me understand his credentials. Is he a scientist? Is he a coach? Is he a chemist? After 2005, is he still even involved in elite sport? How is he better qualified than Dr. Joyner to estimate benefit for elite sprinters? Are there studies that suggest "The most powerful banned substance for sprinters, ..., is EPO." Do any other sprinting coaches agree that EPO is more powerful than steroids for sprinters? On Joyner, with no disrespect intended, it is not wrong to say he is a firm believer in doping effect for elites. You just found one example confirming that, contradicting a "review study" which finds a lack of studies properly supporting such a conclusion. His intuition may be right in many circumstances, but the basis for it has not been established. With respect to his statement, are there studies that have looked at the quantitative effect of "doping in general (that) facilitates harder training"? For elite athletes?
Lets Tell It Like It Is wrote:
On Conte; I don't why you brush him off - don't you think he might know thing or two about PEDs & elite performance? Don't you think you're being a bit obstinate in blowing off doping experts so quickly?
0/10
rekrunnr wrote:
Poppycock. These so-called scientists still don't get that those values come from altitude. Sarah was at altitude and has no case to answer.
Also why would a 2:19 runner start doping? That would only make her slower.
Good question.
She was obviously doping to run 2:19 as nobody would run that then start doping.
Sarah Chepchirchir, who was provisionally suspended in February by the Athletics Integrity Unit (AIU) , has now been officially banned because of abnormalities in her athlete biological passport.
The 35-year-old's ban has been backdated until April 11 last year (2018).
She tested positive in March 2015 after finishing second in the First Lady's Half Marathon in Nairobi, but Athletics Kenya let her escape with a warning.
"Integrity" wrote:
She tested positive in March 2015 after finishing second in the First Lady's Half Marathon in Nairobi, but Athletics Kenya let her escape with a warning.
Really!?
Link please.
Hgkjv wrote:
"Integrity" wrote:
She tested positive in March 2015 after finishing second in the First Lady's Half Marathon in Nairobi, but Athletics Kenya let her escape with a warning.
Really!?
Link please.
That was Kibarus, not Chepchirchir.
The latest runners to be provisionally suspended by the AIU are Mercy Jerotich Kibarus and James Kibet.The latest runners to be provisionally suspended by the AIU are Mercy Jerotich Kibarus and James Kibet.
Major marathons should cut the prize money. Give More money to running clubs instead of doper du jour, who dopes for the big pay check.
Suspended again. Seems like she didn't learn her lesson