Bodybuilding vs Running

Creatine only helps for sprinters, I believe. I tried using it anyway, for muscle recovery, but it ultimately just makes you gain weight you don't need for longer distance running. Plus it's not good for your kidneys.

I pop a caffeine pill every day, 2 cups of coffee worth of caffeine.

I'll let the hard-core runners/anorexics answer your question better.

Not exactly sure when it really started in running, but cycling has always been a chemical war since the beginning. Early 1900s cyclist used rat poison, alcohol, cocaine and other drugs. Starting in the 30s or so with the introduction of amphetamines and synthetic testosterone, cyclist start using that probably after the war. Than in the 40s there were the first studies done on blood transfusions improving endurance. I would not be surprised if it(blood doping) started in the before the 60s. We know for sure some runners started using transfusions in the 70s. The 1984 US Olympic cycling team did blood transfusions at that Olympics. Than the 90s begin the era of EPO and HGH. Now since testing has gotten tighter, it is now the era of grey zone stuff like you see with NOP and doctors like Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt who use Actovegin. Actovegin is what I suspect is the secret sauce that most elite level runners are using now, it is not on the banned list. And has many performance enhancing effects. Than like NOP does, you can take high doses of vitamin d, l carnitine, thyroid medications and TUEs for stuff like asthma inhalers. And lastly there are designer steroids like some baseball players used in the MLB that are gummies and are out of your system within a few hours, I would not doubt if there is a blood boosting equivalent of these gummies.

I do not believe that anyone at the top of our sport has the cojones, the will or the motivation to properly hold drug takers to account. all they are interested in is papering over a few cracks to give the impression they care, whilst blatantly ignoring highly organised, widespread, policy approved drug taking and nefarious tactics with the sole intent of maximising the amount of money the sport can make for their various organisations. neither the IAAF, the IOC, WADA or anyone else cares about anything other than money. they have spent the last thirty years making this abundantly clear and anyone who cannot see it does not want to. as a sport, track and field is finished. it is now nothing more than an adjunct to the entertainment industry and so-called "professional athletes," are merely actors on a stage ad-libbing their lines for a fee while hamming it up for the cameras.

I don't believe they hold their athletes to the standard of WADA...

funniest line on LRC so far this year.

cheers.

Man, this is a funny post. Let's just imagine that most elite runners are on some form of PED, which is probably true. The difference this makes in their performance is probably less than 5%, assuming they haven't found some secret way to take and hide EPO.

For the bodybuilder? That dude who wins Olympia at 5'8", 270 and 4% bodyfat would be 5'8", 215 and 6% bodyfat if he wasn't on the sauce. It's daylight and dark. There is no one on earth who can come close to the way top level bodybuilders look without taking roids. No one. There are people who can come close to elite running performances without PEDs.

Btw, creatine is probably the only non-steroid, GNC type supplement that does anything. Maybe HMB as well. But these are marginal gains.

Where's da Weight Woom wrote:

I was never much of a runner in college but was trying to put on some mass and strength in the gym. I quickly realized through observation and the equivalent of the lets's run message boards - the body building .com forums - that supplements and at a higher level "gear" are a big part of bodybuilding. They don't try to hide it. They don't really deny it.

Well that's one part of your answer. I doubt if you'd overhear competitors even at a local 5K openly bragging about how much EPO they injected that morning. If there is an equivalent doping culture in running, it's at least hidden (leaving aside the doping apologists on this board, who are always anonymous anyway).

Most 'bodybuilders' in they gym never compete, even a amateur local shows. Most 'runners' do compete even occasionally at a local 5K or a marathon once a year.

Most 'bodybuilders' take steroids because it has 24/7 benefits of having bigger muscles that are permanently on display. It's get them girls, respect of other dudes etc every time they walk down the street.

99.99% of runners are amateurs or hobby joggers. Why would people take EPO or HGH just so that they could finish 10th in their local 5K rather than 30th or finish higher up a Strava segment leaderboard or such like? Not really worth the benefit is it, or the feeling of being a cheat, which to most non-psychopaths, is still an uncomfortable feeling to endure.

There is no drug testing in most shows....any shows? Unless it’s a ‘natural’ show.

Alan

natty fatty wrote:

Creatine only helps for sprinters, I believe. I tried using it anyway, for muscle recovery, but it ultimately just makes you gain weight you don't need for longer distance running. Plus it's not good for your kidneys.

I pop a caffeine pill every day, 2 cups of coffee worth of caffeine.

I'll let the hard-core runners/anorexics answer your question better.

Creatine is not "bad for your kidneys." Where do you people get this $hit?

Rambling but slightly interesting post. Seems like you haven't heard but there's doping in local age group competitions in the endurance sports, triathlons especially but also in running. It's really easy for older athletes to get prescriptions for steroids.

cotton shirt wrote:

I do not believe that anyone at the top of our sport has the cojones, the will or the motivation to properly hold drug takers to account. all they are interested in is papering over a few cracks to give the impression they care, whilst blatantly ignoring highly organised, widespread, policy approved drug taking and nefarious tactics with the sole intent of maximising the amount of money the sport can make for their various organisations.

.

this is cool and good. drugs have been a part of sports longer than any of us have, doped competition is better, and judicious drug use helps athletes maintain their performance as they age.

I've been through a P5 program and know many runners from other P5 schools and now in the elite runner world. Very few runners are taking 'sketchy' stuff. Many will take iron supplements or regular old vitamins. There are however the occasional teams/coaches that make it a point to take thyroid medication to keep weight down near a race or something similar to that. Thankfully I've never been in that environment.

I think the more rare cases of pure doping, like EPO or other things, aren't nearly as common. But the people doing that are the ones that have found themselves at or near the top and will do anything to stay there.

And from my experience in the NCAA the teams are so close and you're always with other runners, I don't know how someone would hide that. But if you're an elite post-collegiate runner that doesn't train in a training group, it would be more likely in my opinion.

A body builder taking protein and creatine is like a runner eating a salad and popping an iron pill. Creatine is the most tested supplement ever and does not damage the kidneys.

Some high school runners would rather make all-conference than not. Some high school runners would rather go to state than not go to state. Some high school runners would rather race sub-4:10 1600m (male) & sub-4:40 1600m (female). Some 50 plus year old runners like getting their name in local newspaper for racing sub-17 & sub-35 5K & 10K. Why do weight lifters at local L.A. Fitness often take illegal drugs? A weight lifter is no more likely to get a pretty & nice girlfriend if said weight lifter is 5'11" 200lbs. at 7 1/2% fat or 5'11" 225lbs. at 6% body fat but many guys at the gym take illegal drugs for the listed differences.

Rich Piana wrote:

Man, this is a funny post. Let's just imagine that most elite runners are on some form of PED, which is probably true. The difference this makes in their performance is probably less than 5%, assuming they haven't found some secret way to take and hide EPO.

For the bodybuilder? That dude who wins Olympia at 5'8", 270 and 4% bodyfat would be 5'8", 215 and 6% bodyfat if he wasn't on the sauce. It's daylight and dark. There is no one on earth who can come close to the way top level bodybuilders look without taking roids. No one. There are people who can come close to elite running performances without PEDs.

Btw, creatine is probably the only non-steroid, GNC type supplement that does anything. Maybe HMB as well. But these are marginal gains.

Not to be too personal, but aren't you dead, oilbag? lol

Gfr wrote:

natty fatty wrote:

Creatine only helps for sprinters, I believe. I tried using it anyway, for muscle recovery, but it ultimately just makes you gain weight you don't need for longer distance running. Plus it's not good for your kidneys.

I pop a caffeine pill every day, 2 cups of coffee worth of caffeine.

I'll let the hard-core runners/anorexics answer your question better.

Creatine is not "bad for your kidneys." Where do you people get this $hit?

I took creatine on a few occasions between 07-09. Took it as noted, usually months between those 2 years. It was def effective. I felt a difference on those days using creatine vs not using it. I gained some water weight too, much bulkier vs my running frame now..

I get regular blood work done, full metabolic panel..all things were clean and in good range yet my creatinine levels were noticeably higher than 6 months earlier. If I remember correctly, anything over 1.2 % of creatinine in the blood was flagged as higher. Mine was something in the mid 2's. My Doc was confused and immediately asked if I was taking any kind of supplement. I confessed to using creatine in the last few months on and off. She expressed while not immediately dangerous, in the long haul, most using supps like creatine who don't get blood work done, are indeed putting more stress on their kidneys, likely aren't aware of it.

Not saying it's HGH by a long shot, but if you are using it, def get your blood checked to ensure your body is responding appropriately.

You’re not a bodybuilder if you don’t compete. You’re not a power lifter if you don’t compete. You’re just a dude in the gym trying to get strong and look good naked.

I would bet no one winning even an regional amateur NPC show is clean. You would even have to go down to the lightest weight classes to find a clean winner.

Really it comes down to how you define a bodybuilder. I like lifting more weight than I did last time or more reps or going to the well and pushing past fatigue. Similar to runners who want to run longer, run faster, finish higher, enjoy pushing past fatigue on a workout.

You are FAR more alike than different.

Alan

Creatine is not "bad for your kidneys." Where do you people get this $hit?[/quote]

Creatine can slightly raise levels of creatinine in your blood. Creatinine is commonly measured to diagnose kidney or liver problems.

However, the fact that creatine raises creatinine levels does not mean that it is harming your liver or kidneys (21).

To date, no study of creatine use in healthy individuals has provided evidence of harm to these organs (1, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26).

A long-term study of college athletes found no side effects related to liver or kidney function. Other studies measuring biological markers in the urine also found no difference after creatine ingestion (27).

One of the longest studies to date — lasting for four years — similarly concluded that creatine has no negative side effects (24).

Another popular study often cited in the media reported kidney disease in a male weightlifter who supplemented with creatine (28).

However, this single case study is insufficient evidence. Numerous other factors, including additional supplements, were also involved (26, 28).

That said, creatine supplements should be approached with caution if you have a history of liver or kidney issues.

SUMMARY

Current research suggests that creatine does not cause liver or kidney problems.

Does It Cause Digestive Problems?

As with many supplements or medications, excessive doses may cause digestive issues.

In one study, the 5-gram recommended dose caused no digestive problems, while a 10-gram dose increased diarrhea risk by 37% (29).

For this reason, the recommended serving is set at 3–5 grams. The 20-gram loading protocol is also split into four servings of 5 grams each over the course of a day (1).

One leading researcher reviewed several studies and concluded that creatine does not increase digestive problems when taken at recommended doses (30).

However, it is possible that additives, ingredients, or contaminants generated during the industrial production of creatine can lead to issues (21, 31).

It is therefore recommended that you purchase a trusted, high-quality product.

SUMMARY

Creatine does not increase digestive issues when the recommended dosages and loading guidelines are followed.

How Does It Interact With Other Drugs?

As with any diet or supplement regimen, it is best to discuss your creatine plans with a doctor or other medical professional before you start.

You may also wish to avoid creatine supplements if you are taking any medications that affect liver or kidney function.

Medications that may interact with creatine include cyclosporine, aminoglycosides, gentamicin, tobramycin, anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen, and numerous others (7).

Creatine can help improve blood sugar management, so if you are using medication known to affect blood sugar, you should discuss creatine use with a doctor (5).

You should also consult a medical professional if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or have a serious condition, such as heart disease or cancer.

SUMMARY

Creatine may cause problems if you take certain types of medications, including medications that affect blood sugar.

Other Potential Side Effects

Some people suggest that creatine can lead to compartment syndrome, a condition that occurs when excessive pressure builds inside an enclosed space — usually within arm or leg muscles.

Although one study found an increase in muscle pressure during two hours of heat training, it resulted mainly from heat and exercise-induced dehydration — not from creatine (32).

Researchers also concluded the pressure was short-lived and insignificant.

Some claim that creatine supplements increase your risk of rhabdomyolysis, a condition in which muscle breaks down and leaks proteins into your bloodstream. However, this idea is not supported by any evidence.

The myth originated because a marker in your blood called creatine kinase increases with creatine supplements (32).

However, this slight increase is quite different from the large amounts of creatine kinase associated with rhabdomyolysis. Interestingly, some experts even suggest creatine may protect against this condition (32, 33).

Some people also confuse creatine with anabolic steroids, but this is yet another myth. Creatine is a completely natural and legal substance found in your body and in foods — such as meat — with no link to steroids (7).

Finally, there is a misconception that creatine is suitable only for male athletes, not for older adults, women, or children. However, no research suggests that it is unsuitable in recommended doses for women or older adults (1).

Unlike most supplements, creatine has been given to children as a medical intervention for certain conditions, such as neuromuscular disorders or muscle loss.

Studies lasting as long as three years have uncovered no negative effects of creatine in children (1, 4, 34).

SUMMARY

Research has consistently confirmed creatine’s excellent safety profile. There is no evidence that it causes adverse conditions like rhabdomyolysis or compartment syndrome.

The Bottom Line

Creatine has been used for more than a century, and over 500 studies support its safety and effectiveness.

It also provides many benefits for muscle and performance, may improve markers of health, and is being used in medical settings to help treat a variety of diseases (1, 4, 5).

At the end of the day, creatine is one of the cheapest, most effective, and safest supplements available.

The cheapest, most effective, and safe supplement is testosterone.

Small doses (~100mg/wk) will raise your hematocrit to over 50 in just a few weeks, and your recovery will be superhuman. This is very far below any WADA test detectible level.

To compare, a "beginner" dose for bodybuilding or is 500mg/wk.

Just a guess, but *most* high level athletes (endurance) micro-dose test or do small doses of other things (Winstrol or Anavar).