4:40 mile to sub 4:20?

So, what's your mileage like?

50-60 mpw with some time on the bike.

Wearther wrote:

50-60 mpw with some time on the bike.

Are you doing any strength work? I.e. Tempo runs, progression runs, cruise intervals, fartlek runs, hills?

I do strength workouts (weights and poly) Mon., Wed., and Friday. Track workouts Tues and Sat. Tempo/Cruise Interval workout on Thursday. I don't have any good hills near where I live...

Sorry I meant plyo instead of poly.

Wearther wrote:

I do strength workouts (weights and poly) Mon., Wed., and Friday. Track workouts Tues and Sat. Tempo/Cruise Interval workout on Thursday. I don't have any good hills near where I live...

How long and at what pace are your tempo runs at? And what do you typically do as far as weights and plyometerics?

My tempo runs are around 6-8 miles. Example: 1 mile warm-up, 4 x mile @ 5:35 to 5:45 with 0.25 mile @ 6:20 to 6:40 between, 1 mile cool-down. Weights I do many variations of squats, pull-ups, deadlifts, core-stabilization exercises, etc... and for plyometrics, I do many different sequences focussing on short ground contact time and landing soft and balanced. Also,​ I usually incorporate those gel pad things that make landing balanced more difficult.

My suggestion is to do shorter tempo runs at a faster pace. Get to the point where you can do 6 kilometres in 20 minutes.

Thanks for the suggestion!

I think you're doing the right things, keep up the hard work.

I would like to suggest that you should try and increase your mileage (slowly though) to 70-80 mpw. Make your long runs longer but at slower pace!

also, one thing with the tempo runs, I would suggest you do 1.5 miles warm up, 5miles @5:25-5:35 with 1.5-2 miles cool down = 8 miles

cheers!

You can definitely run sub 4:20 based off all the work you are putting in:

Solid miles for a HS guy.

Tempo runs.

Some speed (the 200s and 300s)

Plyos and weights.

A talented runner could easily run 4:20 off just what you listed. You may be talented, perhaps not---you'll find out this spring.

In any case, I advise you to find and read the recent detailing of Jakob ingebrigstens training on runnerstribe website.

The lesson: do a lot more training at tempo and threshold paces, at least 2-3 sessions a week (JI does 3-5 but is much more developed than you). Look up your appropriate paces on the Tinman calculator. Add on strides or 200s and 300s frequently to the end of easy days and tempos, but not as separate hard workouts. And when you do the speed, do not strain. And do them at goal pace: 51s for your 300s is 4:32 mile pace---too slow. The point of these efforts is to learn to relax at pace and to run fast with smooth technique--if you are grunting or hands on knees at any point you're doing it wrong.

The information available on the internet to your generation is incredible. Seek it out. Kudos to you for working hard and for seeking here to learn.

I was your age in the 1990s and we knew nothing and we sucked. My only workouts at your age were 2x/week of 600-400-300-200 cutdowns as fast as possible --huffing and puffing, hands on knees after every rep, flailing the last 50m of each rep.

Wearther wrote:

Weights I do many variations of squats, pull-ups, deadlifts, core-stabilization exercises, etc... and for plyometrics, I do many different sequences focussing on short ground contact time and landing soft and balanced. Also,​ I usually incorporate those gel pad things that make landing balanced more difficult.

0/10 - another stupid thread about weights.

Can't say I know what I'm talking about, but it doesn't look like you're doing any all out sprint training. I'm not an expert here but seems to me like you should be doing regular 200m and 400m sprints.

Somebody else can correct me if I'm wrong

Couch To 1k wrote:

Can't say I know what I'm talking about, but it doesn't look like you're doing any all out sprint training. I'm not an expert here but seems to me like you should be doing regular 200m and 400m sprints.

Somebody else can correct me if I'm wrong

If that is the case I would recommend he cuts those out until the track season and do more strength work instead i.e. progression run finished w/ 4-10 x short hill sprints or 4-10 x 50m-150m on the track if you don't have any hills.

I agree you should think of yourself as a 4:30 miler for now. You ran 4:40 a year ago as a soph, so just normal maturity plus your decent training should have you 4:30 this year. Until you break 4:30, train as a 4:30 guy. Plugging 4:30 mile into Tinman calculator gives you the following training paces:

Tempo: 5:35

Threshold: 5:20

CV: 5:05

I will now design your workouts for free:

TEMPO:

So we see you are basically spot on with your tempo paces, not too slow like the one poster said. I agree with the other poster you should do tempo runs as continuous runs, not reps. Or 2 blocks of 15 minutes each with 5 min jog between. So either:

1. Warmup + 5 miles straight @5:35 pace + cooldown.

Or

2. Warmup + 15 mins @5:35 pace +5min easy+ 15 mins @5:35 pace.

THRESHOLD:

5:20 pace for you. I advise doing repeat miles with short rests , or 2x 10 minute blocks. So either:

1. Warmup + 4x 1mile@5:20 pace with 1 min rest + cool down

Or

2. Warmup + 2x 10 minutes @ 5:20 pace with a 3min easy jog between + cool down.

CV:

The pace made famous by Tinman. 5:05 for you. Just copy his 4x 1k @5:05 pace with 1 min rest.

I advise you follow each of your workouts (before cooldown) with 2 400s and 2 200s at 4:30 to 4:20 mile pace (so 68 to 65 for the 400s and 34 to 32 for the 200s).

Let's plan you a week:

Keep your same Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday workouts, but turn them into one tempo, one threshold, and one CV plus the 400s and 200s). Alternate the tempo and threshold options each week. Mon wed and Friday run easy (do not exceed 7:00 per mile, followed by 8x 100m strides). Sunday run 12 miles easy, with the last 3 miles hard only if feeling great.

So example:

M: easy + strides

T: tempo

W: easy + strides

Th: threshold

F: easy + strides

S: CV

Su: long

Do this week in and week out, and you will be an aerobic beast who has ALSO done tons of mile pace reps, and you will kick as$.

Now go make me proud.

even if the op doesn't take your advice I will, thanks for the workouts man.

Wow! Thank you for the great response! Will definitely use

Possible but unlikely

Put your weight and strength days on the same days as your "hard" days when you are either doing a tempo or intervals. DO NOT put them on your easy days.