Sub - 60 400m thread

Similar to my last run today.

5 miles at 7:10 pace. Did not check watch much, just ran at the pace that came to me. The first mile is always a little fast, probably because it's always at or just over freezing, so I think I instinctively run it faster to warm myself up - it doesn't feel any harder than the other miles.

Finished with 3 * 100m all out sprints, 300m walk recovery, and a 1km shuffle jog home.

Tomorrow will be similar to today, then Monday is my first planned real workout day. Think I'll probably do something like 6*15s sprinting up a steep hill.

Over and out!

Great going HM, you're laying down a great base for fast 400/800m times. I seem to be recovering; I've had almost no sciatic discomfort/pain today so that's been making me pretty happy, although my optimism is still very cautious. Even if I have very little to no discomfort going forward I don't think I'll run at all for the remainder of January. If I feel this good or better starting February, I'll start introducing very light running with some strides as long as I feel good. Hoping to join you soon HM and co.!

Bump. I wonder how everyone's doing.

I've only ran sub 60 once in my early 20s (time=59.86) and am trying to do it again in my early 30s after a multi-year break from doing anything athletic. At that time, it took me about half a year of focused, dedicated sprint training to run 59.86. I hope I'm not too old for this.

I started running again in last August with just easy miles to get used to running again. I hit 20 MPW by Christmas and have since started to lower the mileage to focus on speed. I figured I'm about halfway done since the 400 is 50% aerobic at this level (it's more like 30% aerobic at the sub 45 second level).

My times so far are below. The times I set when I was in 59.86 shape are in parentheses.

60 - 8.81 (8.66)

100 - 13.87 (13.41)

200 - 28.28 (27.03)

400 - 61.75 (59.86)

I'm about the same weight as I was back then. My vertical jump and standing broad jump are about the same as well.

Hi, thanks for the continued interest.

The reason for it going quiet is a bad one - I had taken about 2-3 weeks away from training, basically due to having a bunch of college work and theatre commitments, but I likely could've fitted it in somehow.

HOWEVER you bumped it in good time, as I'm back again - I'm doing the 5 milers with some sprints at the end again, and my plan is the same as it was before - do these daily for a couple weeks, then start workouts. So everything is as it was, just pushed 3 weeks back.

Welcome to the thread also, good luck! It's a little troubling that you needed sub 13.5 speed to go sub 60, as that honestly seems beyond me - I think I'd need to be able to run it off 13.7, but who knows.

Was/is my goal too wrote:

You need a lot more speed. I only got 61 off of 12.9 for 100m and 43.8 for 300m.

Maybe just speed endurance. Back when I ran a 58.xx 400, my 100m and 200m times were 13.1 and 26.0. I remember being able to easily hit 29-30 in workouts.

If you have very good speed endurance (i.e. 800 under 2:18), then it is quite possible to run sub-60 off of a 27.5 FAT.

Help! I need some help understanding why my speed endurance is so bad because my times are seeiously sucking, I feel like if I can u derstamd why I’m underperform and what my weakness is then I can start working on it. I am a good starter and my 60m time indicates crazy higher potential than what I am currently capable of but after a few seconds of sprinting the wheels fall off completely.

I managed to find a local sprints group and these were hand timed (standing start) by the PT who runs the group.

60m- 8.45

100m- 15.2

400m- 75.0 barely

Not only am I underperforming massively but I also feel like I could go a lot faster in the 60m once I start working on my form. My PT just tells me to do lots of plyometric exercises, 150 repeats in 25 and 200 repeats in 37.

On an unrelated note, I jumped into a local parkrun which was measured at 3.08 miles and ran 21:44 which was a PR last Tuesday.

200m PB: 23.x

400m PB: 52.x

5000m: 18:40

10000m: 39:50

HM: 1:25:40

I can run sub 60 400m any given day.

You just need speed. If your focus is just sub 60 400m then I would be recommend this. I was doing this workout when I got my 400m ob

Monday: long run. 5k at 4:00

Tuesday: gym.

Wednesda: 5-6x300m 48-50sec. W/4min rest. Speed will increase with time and during race season it will be around 44-45sec. Alternate weeks try for 4x500m in 1:25-1:30 w/4min rest

Thrusday: drills, strength and conditioning, etc etc

Friday; 8-10x200m in 27-28. 3 min rest.

The difference between long distance and sprints is recovery thing. In long distance we jog or do easy runs in between sets. In sprints we try for rest period

So only two speed days per week? Distance runs on the weekend or anything?

My 60m to 100m conversion makes no sense! Could this be a muscle fiber issue? There is slow twitch, fast twitch and very fast twitch (fast twitch II). Is it possible I have a lot of very fast twitch fibers but a low amount of normal fast twitch fibers? Or is this just a fitness issue? I have speed, I have endurance (well, a bit of endurance lol) but absolutely NO speed endurance.

Yezzy wrote:

My 60m to 100m conversion makes no sense! Could this be a muscle fiber issue? There is slow twitch, fast twitch and very fast twitch (fast twitch II). Is it possible I have a lot of very fast twitch fibers but a low amount of normal fast twitch fibers? Or is this just a fitness issue? I have speed, I have endurance (well, a bit of endurance lol) but absolutely NO speed endurance.

Yes I think it may be a fiberquestion, but also about the interaction betweeen different systems in your body.

40 years ago I was fairly good for my agegroup (14/15years) at 800 m, and I was comparatively good at 60 meters, sucked at 100 m, not too bad at 200 (24.8), sucked at 400 at timetrials (do not remember but maybe 58 seconds) and then 2:04:8 at 800 meters and also 9:28 for the 3000.

The last years I have read a lot about training, and one of the major things I have learned is that you become good at what you train for.

Coming from a soccerbackground I was good at accelerations (60 meters, ) but lacked the ability to keep topspeed (bad 100 meters), I had good form and ran smooth quite fast (good 200 meters) but never trained for longer sprints (bad 400 meters), but did a lot of endurance running and endurance intervals (800 m).

So. You have trained your topspeed, 60 meters are better, you have improved your endurance, but how much have you trained for specific 400 meter speedendurance?

I would suggest sometimes intervals (not repeats) of 200-300 meters, and then other times a lot of repeats at 200 / 250 and 300 meters.

That is what I would do, but I am no coach.

Good luck.

Holding speed is a whole nuther kind of running than acceleration! That's why they call it lift phase.

Too many fast twitch muscle fibers. YOU ARE A FUNNY GUY!

I’m a girl with no previous history of sprint training, so for my circumstances I’m pretty fast ...

A lot of apparently strange results in short sprint training come from the relative effect of hand timing error.

I once thought that my 30m time should correspond to a much faster 100m than I could do, but it was the relative effect of the timing.

Once you get to 400m, even a terrible timing error such as 0.4 secs doesn't change the picture.

It is very unlikely that you could really do 8.45 for 60m, but then be at 15.2 for 100m...

YMMV wrote:

If you have very good speed endurance (i.e. 800 under 2:18), then it is quite possible to run sub-60 off of a 27.5 FAT.

I sucked when I was in high school. I had done one season of outdoor track as a sprinter, followed a season of XC and indoor track. Despite coming from a soccer background, I didn’t know how to race properly, nor which events I was best at. I sadly never tried to run a good 800.

I fully believe my hand times are correct, they have been timed multiple times by a coach, I always get between 8.4 and 8.6. I can beat every single person in the sprints group at 60m apart from one guy who is an avid ⚽️ player, I’m way ahead of everybody but a lot of those people can either match or beat me in a 100m race, nearly all of them smoke me at 400.

I literally feel my endurance and power falling apart in a 100m race whereas in 60m that doesn’t happen, my power just increases and I FEEL fast, at 100m I feel abysmally slow so I know for a fact I legitimately grade much, much better at super short sprints.

Yezzy - if that's the case, why not train for 100m? Certainly you have the speed to run a reasonable 400m with some endurance training, but it seems like you could run a comparatively far faster 100m time by focussing your efforts on that for the same amount of time. You do you, and it's great to have you on the thread, I'm just genuinely interested to opt for an event so much longer than the events it would seem you are naturally gifted for?

As for me, ran 9km on grass today, feeling strong. Finished with 4 * 80m or so sprints, with less recovery than I usually take as there was cold rain drizzling down, leaving me shivering if I took too long recovering. Jog back took me to something like 10k.

My sprints feel a little clumsier and slower than before, which is perhaps to be expected after 2 - 3 weeks off, but I hope they don't stay like that for too long!

Did some sprints today, I have been practicing getting closer to 60 second speed, I don’t think I have the speed yet but I have improved and I don’t think I am too far off. Developing the speed endurance will be my main problem, I am never great with endurance lol I have been running since 2013, was one of the naturally fastest sprinty kids on the playground as a kid and I still have yet to break 6 in the mile, doh!??

Today I did 4 x 150m with 3:15 rest

23.1 23.2 23.7 24.1

Then a 5th sprint after 4:30 rest in 23.2

Still thinking I lack the true endurance to even break 30 secs in a 200 but I blew my last 150 workout out of the water, 3 weeks ao I did 6 x 150 at 24.5 secs with 2 min rest.