Agree wrote:
Speaking truths wrote:
Because they’re democrat pieces of trash.
Agree
Agree
Agree wrote:
Speaking truths wrote:
Because they’re democrat pieces of trash.
Agree
Agree
I have only read about the first two pages worth of posts, but most respondents are missing the crux of the argument. Must not have too many Illinoisans on this board. Its not the salary that's the problem, its the total compensation. Illinois has this problem with all its state workers, 3% cost of living increases throughout the entire persons life is unsustainable. Double and triple dipping with multiple pensions after retiring with one municipal job. It's insane. It's not like the teachers are putting themselves in harms way to teach any more than anybody in the private sector. There is absolutely no need for the pension system in teaching, or any other municipal/state job for that matter. Make it all a hybrid or standard 401K susceptible to market fluctuations and taxed just like everyone else. Pay them a little more if necessary in salary and give them options for retirement plans like everyone else. Kentucky was forced to go off the pension system, only reason Illinois hasn't is due to Madigan and his chronies.
Illinois' biggest problem is very little of what you mentioned. Double and triple dipping in education does not happen often and certainly not enough to even being close to the biggest issue. Is being in harm's way really the only criteria for who is important and who is not? Pensions are one of the few monetary benefits that make teaching attractive. With talk of getting rid of it and actual legislation to reduce future pension payments to new hires, there is now a teacher shortage (good news to all of you dying for the great benefits, money, and time off associated with the easy job of teaching). Paycheck after paycheck, teachers pay into the pension system, generally at 10%. Who hasn't paid in, at all or at a reasonable rate, for years, maybe decades? The state of Illinois. That is the reason the pension system is falling apart. The people of Illinois, represented by the politicians in Springfield, failed to live up to their end of the bargain. That failure is now being touted as the reason for wanting to change or even eliminate pension payments, both current and future. Teachers, an easy target, have been hoisted upon the public as the reason for the budget woes of Illinois. It is crap!
This is a circular argument. The state is broke because of the pensions and thus can't fund the pensions. And this is the states fault?? My employer matches my 401k contribution at 50 percent up to 3 perfcent. That is unless they go broke and can't afford it. This isn't that hard to understand. Switch to a defined contribution not a defined benefit plan. Quit blaming the state for not paying when the unsustainable pension system they created caused it.
Teachers are definitely underpaid in California. Teachers have continuing education training that they are required to go to all the time depending on grade level. I cant speak for other states but the "free time" you think they get after 3pm is dealing with Parents which has become atrocious because a lot of parents today think sending their kid to school is some glorified babysitting and they don't partake in actually raising their child into a functional adult and instead just hand them a screen most of the time. Parents nowadays have access to teachers (at least in CA) 24/7 due to an app that puts you in direct communication with the child's teacher. And if you can believe it the PARENTS are asking the teacher how to do the homework because their kid didn't pay attention in school not to mention a list of other things. Its the fact that teachers have to take this work home where the pay is not justified. On top of it their reputation, and even job in some cases, is held by parents that think their kid is going to be the next bill gates or lebron james so if their kid "happens" to have a problem in school it is automatically the teachers fault.
and you are a piece of crap.........hey dumb crap.......put your mouth where you think you can defend yourself....
Ass wipe!
What if your employer went broke (and couldn't/didn't pay into your retirement) because they spent the company's money on race horses, booze, drugs, and gold plated toilets? In your case, at least the 401K is in your name. Teachers in Illinois watched the state spend money on crap and then claim they couldn't live up to their end of the bargain. They have been kicking the can down the road for so long that now the can is several 55 gallon drums. The annoying part to teachers is then the state turns around and makes us out to be the bad guys. The system is only unsustainable right now because of polticial decisions made by the state for years (with many, including teachers, warning them that this was going to end poorly). The system would be in much better shape had those payments been made (payments that could have been made but other crap, and I do mean crap, was deemed more important, politically). The system was affordable at one time but the state screwed up. Stop blaming those who had little to nothing to do with that.
I'll bite I have taught for 28 years in Maryland. I make 75k a year. Most of my summers off have included time going to class. When I was younger I would take night classes, but as I got older it was too tiring. My pension, which is the same for all of Maryland, is roughly 38% of my 3 highest years. Typically that is your last 3 years. The medium income in my county is 77k a year. I will be honest that as I near the end of my teaching career I don't spend as much time planning, or grading as I used too.
One thing to remember is that in most areas teachers are required to get a masters, and to continue their education. In my county to maintain my teaching certificate I must take 6 grad credits every 5 years.
You are adequately compensated because you accepted your job.
I wasn't complaining, but I do think I am underpaid. Yes, I chose my profession, and I believe I chose correctly. I still work a part-time job for a few extra bucks. You have to admit there are some who are grossly overpaid in our society. Heck, Manny Machado might make 30 million a year to play baseball?
Gaylord Ruppstains wrote:
Probably because they have to allow themselves to be stabbed / shot.
In the "good old days" they would have been allowed to beat unruly kids to a pulp, which:-
A. Probably gave them a LOT of job satisfaction.
And
B. Made kids be fearful / treat authority with respect.
But now that's several generations all gone, it's the kids who think THEY'RE entitled to dish out the violence, and our society has gone down the crapper.
Probably why they're after a few more bucks.
The irony is the ones who teach in those schools are probably paid the least.
Not apples to apples, but nice try. Your employer (Illinois or some village/city in Illinois) can't go broke. It is literally against the law to declare bankruptcy. Instead, property taxes get raised, gas taxes become insane, etc to help pay for your out of control pension. If my employer goes broke. I take my 401K, which is susceptible to the market, and I look for a new job. Pretty nice to have the taxpayers to fall back on though.
Positive Contribution wrote:
Gaylord Ruppstains wrote:
Probably because they have to allow themselves to be stabbed / shot.
In the "good old days" they would have been allowed to beat unruly kids to a pulp, which:-
A. Probably gave them a LOT of job satisfaction.
And
B. Made kids be fearful / treat authority with respect.
But now that's several generations all gone, it's the kids who think THEY'RE entitled to dish out the violence, and our society has gone down the crapper.
Probably why they're after a few more bucks.
The irony is the ones who teach in those schools are probably paid the least.
Truth. There’s a teaching shortage not because of the pay but because kids are rude, disrespectful and it just not worth it. And you parents know it too because you complain every time there’s no school.
You pay for 184 days of school. It doesn’t matter if it’s three day weekends or spring breaks. That what you pay for. You want more fork up. But... private is 2-3x the cost and less days so good luck.
You might want to ask pensioners in the city of Detroit if bankruptcy of a government is illegal.
And again, the "out of control pension" is only such because the state neglected making its payments for years, to the tune of billions of dollars. You and I decide to rent a place together, splitting the $1000 rent in half. Every month I give you $500. After a few months, we owe the landlord $3000 because you never paid the rent. Then you blame me for a $3000 bill because the rent is too high on the place. Not a perfect analogy, but from the teacher side, that's what it sounds like.
One thing bothers me is that they only mention pay for someone who has not progressed in teaching.
In any job you generally have to progress to being a manager to earn more money.
So a teacher who is the head of even a small dept will automatically get more money. Head teachers get double the salary of a regular teacher.
Marking etc in comfort of your own home is not the same as working. I knew a teacher never did any work at home. Did it all in free periods at school instead of sitting round drinking coffee. She is now a head teacher
PE teacher chiming in.
I absolutely love my job. I'm active all day, have fun, and my students actually enjoy coming to my class (a lot of teachers can't say that!).
While I wish I was paid more (I think everyone feels that way), I feel like I am pretty fairly compensated for my work. I get to work at 7AM, and leave at 4PM, so I work the as long as everyone else. When I'm in season for one of the teams I coach, I'm using pulling 12/13 hour days. It's an exhausting but rewarding job.
I think one of my coworkers said it best about all of the vacation time that teachers get. "If we didn't have so much time off, the students would want to rip our heads off, and we would probably want to rip theirs off too."
Teachers provide a value in our society that has a much bigger meaning and long term financial value than they will ever receive credit. Educated kids grow up and become productive members of society, make things, do things, pay taxes. Uneducated people become a drain on society. One of the primary issues of this strike in LA is class size. Teachers know they cannot be effective if the class size is too big. Teacher salary should also be competitive with other industries that would compete for their talents, otherwise only the less talented will do it. That is the market economy that so many are touting here but with a different purpose.
The Anti School Lobby is working well. They have convinced people that Charter & Private schools are the answer, that Teachers are greedy. But few consider that private education is not available to the masses who are being left out. That is bad for America long term. By taking funding from schools for decades we have created the self fulfilled prophesy of failing schools. The Teacher Unions are trying hard to make schools better for the masses but are being fought tooth and nail.
This is the reason for Unions. It is about a balance of power. The worker individually has no power against a government or corporation. Together individuals can become powerful. It is possible for Unions to become too strong. It is also possible for governments and corporations to become all powerful over the worker / citizen. That is why there should be a balance. It is why we have 3 separate branches of government so that none holds too much power. Check and balance.
There is an unbelievable amount of hate for teachers on this thread. Do you look back on your Elementary school teachers and think they were just hateful people who never did anything for you or anyone else and should be ousted from society? You would think that reading this thread.
Wolf's Bane wrote:
Teachers in parts of rural north carolina start around 26k. They top out at around 45k.
And what is the median income in those parts of rural North Carolina? I would venture to guess they do pretty well for the area (at least on a per hour basis).
It seems to me that teachers ARE NOT highly paid......when compared to highly paid individuals. You know who else isn't paid as much as rich people? Almost everybody (letsrun commenters notwithstanding). I am from a family of teachers and have a number of friends who are teachers. The ones who went parochial are indeed poorly compensated. The ones who teach in public school are paid more after 15 years than most other members in the group who have corporate jobs. They also receive 8-12 weeks off per year and have pensions. They complain about what they are paid to the rest of us while at the same time talking about how they will retire at 52 with ~$75k per year pension (on average). The rest of us are self-funding our retirements, further lowering our disposable income and hope to retire at from 60-65.
Brooklyndan wrote:
I left an MBA program to become a teacher. I chose to teach PE because I thought/knew it would be more fun and less stressful for the same pay. Most teachers do not complain about pay. And most non teachers do not understand what the job entails.
OK - I'll call you on this one. That last sentence is just bull-hockey.
You have a platform, please help me understand what I don't know about what the job entails. Seriously. I hear this so many times - without any reasoning behind it. Like grading after hours...gee, in my experience, many non-education related employees take work home with them - there is a comparison there. Or dealing with children and parents; if you're in management, you're dealing with your direct reports and higher level managers...again, there is a comparison here.
I'd bet I know more about what that job (teaching) entails than about most jobs that I don't do - like being in law enforcement, nursing, engineering, etc. etc. etc.
Making that claim ignores the issues.
If you could remove the unions and actually pay teachers for performance, I'd guarantee an increase in the performance of our students. When someone gets a raise for time spent on the job and education level ONLY, and not on performance, I'll show you a stupid system.