Tinman & Ingebrigsten: what about SPECIFICITY???

Excuse me, but is this the real Tinman? Sounds like a homemade philosophy without anchoring in any science and you still believe this concept is true ?

who else was talented? wrote:

All you need to do is 8 x 1k @ 3k pace w/ 1:30 minute rest.

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/rashid-ramzi-of-bahrain-right-out-sprints-asbel-kipruto-news-photo/112887830http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2748373

this is a 5000m workout.

for 1500m you only need to do 4 or 5 to get the aerobic adaptation effect. the extra 3 repeats are a waste/

but if you can run a 48 second quarter, take epo and hgh, then 8 x 1km is fine. you won't get exhausted with the quick recovery provided by the peds.

for distance running, you need that aerobic engine

on the track you have to close in 54 or better.

and you have to do most your quality work at race pace.

you rest you recover you build.

you don't feel well, back off.

longjack wrote:

who else was talented? wrote:

All you need to do is 8 x 1k @ 3k pace w/ 1:30 minute rest.

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/rashid-ramzi-of-bahrain-right-out-sprints-asbel-kipruto-news-photo/112887830http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2748373

this is a 5000m workout.

for 1500m you only need to do 4 or 5 to get the aerobic adaptation effect. the extra 3 repeats are a waste/

but if you can run a 48 second quarter, take epo and hgh, then 8 x 1km is fine. you won't get exhausted with the quick recovery provided by the peds.

for distance running, you need that aerobic engine

on the track you have to close in 54 or better.

and you have to do most your quality work at race pace.

you rest you recover you build.

you don't feel well, back off.

From what I've read on Ramzi training was that he trained like a 5000m runner for most of the year. Volume usually in the 180-200 kilometer a week range. Makes me wonder what he could have accomplished if he wasn't caught? He probably would have won a medal in the 5000m and or 10000m in the 2012 Olympic games. Before moving up to run some sub 2:06 marathons.

Here is him in the Pre two mile race in 2008:

Tinman wrote:Another key concept I learned a long time ago is what I call “keep the ball rolling.” This means avoid extremes that cause injury, illness, and imbalance. *Be consitent in executing well-balanced training; the results will be good and predictable.

+1

Thanks for replying, Tom, and congrats on your coaching success and the attention you are deservedly receiving.

So is my original post correct--that you would rarely assign what I term "specific" intervals--repeated 400m, 600m, or 800m reps at mile pace for milers?

Are these done as big races approach??

Does one of your 5kers who can race 5k at say 4:20 per mile ever bash out mile repeats or kilos at 4:20 mile pace?

Your training is fascinating to me, and it makes so much sense: get massively aerobically fit through threshold/CV, while also consistently using strides/hills/200m reps to gain the "technique" or "skill" of fast running while avoiding burnout/injury.

For comparison, my D1 college program that always underperformed had us doing long repeats (kilos or miles)on Monday basically as hard as we could; Thursday was 300s, 400s, or 600s reps, again as fast as possible; and a 4-5 mile "tempo" on Saturday that most ran as a race. Results: lots of injuries, very few sub 14:30 5ks despite lots of talented kids.

Thanks also to you other posters providing insight on Inges, Bakken, Seiler, etc. Good stuff

My wife's first coach (a former Olympic track cyclist) had her train for the 3 km pursuit (a ~3.5 min event) using an approach comparable to what you describe in your last paragraph above. Being a cyclist, she didn't get injured, but she also didn't improve a lot.

After a few years, she ditched her coach, adopted a more Lydiard- (and Tinman-) esque training program, and knocked it out of the ballpark:

Now cycling and running aren't exactly the same in terms of their demands, at least biomechanically, but as described above I see a lot of parallels in the lessons that can be learned here.

Thank you for your contributions, Tinman. I find your podcasts and lectures most interesting.

I’ve never heard of you talk about combining CV and 5k pace in a workout by ending with a few short 5k pace reps (4-600m) instead of the quicker paced 200s. Is there benefit to this? I’m thinking of the rule of specificity and getting better at race pace by running it. Especially when tired by the ks.

Something like 4-6x1k and then 5-6x400 @ 5k pace or 3-4 x 600m

It would be nice to know your thoughts on that.

Many thanks. T

Trevelyan Harper wrote:

Thank you for your contributions, Tinman. I find your podcasts and lectures most interesting.

I’ve never heard of you talk about combining CV and 5k pace in a workout by ending with a few short 5k pace reps (4-600m) instead of the quicker paced 200s. Is there benefit to this? I’m thinking of the rule of specificity and getting better at race pace by running it. Especially when tired by the ks.

Something like 4-6x1k and then 5-6x400 @ 5k pace or 3-4 x 600m

It would be nice to know your thoughts on that.

Many thanks. T

Really shouldn't think in terms of race pace but instead of race effort. It will take your "specific" sessions a lot further. Forcing a 10x400 in 60 won't make you a 4:00 miler, but running 10x400 in mile effort will be a better workout. Who knows? Maybe after a couple of those you will actually work yourself into 4:00 shape.

Trevelyan Harper wrote:

Thank you for your contributions, Tinman. I find your podcasts and lectures most interesting.

I’ve never heard of you talk about combining CV and 5k pace in a workout by ending with a few short 5k pace reps (4-600m) instead of the quicker paced 200s. Is there benefit to this? I’m thinking of the rule of specificity and getting better at race pace by running it. Especially when tired by the ks.

Something like 4-6x1k and then 5-6x400 @ 5k pace or 3-4 x 600m

It would be nice to know your thoughts on that.

Many thanks. T

He prescribes this quite a lot.

In the 3-6 weeks before a peak 5k race, he changes the CV workout from 6x1k in 3:30, 200m jog & 6x200m to

1) 3x1k in 3:30, 200m jog (CV) + 3x1k in 3:20, 400m jog (5k race pace) or

2) 5-6x800 at 5k pace, 400m rest.

2 weeks before the peak race, he removes the CV workout and replaces it with a peaking workout, e.g. 3xMile progressive, starting a bit slower than 5k pace, then at 5k pace, then a bit faster. With 400m jog rests.

In the week of the peak race, he prescribes a shorter CV workout with a time-trial - e.g. 3x1k in 3:30 (CV), 400m rest (!) & 600m or 800m or 1000m (max) at 97-98 % effort, often done as "first lap at 95%, second lap at 100%".

Ah okay. Thanks for the responses.

I’m going to experiment with this kind of thing in 2019. I’ve never done CV reps before but I’m going to enjoy doing them and trying different efforts afterwards.

I like the idea of effort rather than target pace though. Almost like a mini fartlek session.