Only USATF could be so dumb. The 3:27.40 that Bernard Lagat ran for Kenya in 2004 just got ratified as the American record

rojo wrote

...and then people pointed out that Kallur was born in America and thus a citizen (dumb rule - that portion of the 14th ammendment needs to go).

Bedrock American value. If tou don’t like that one, hand over your right to free assembly and speech, too.

But I do agree with you about eligibilty for NRs. You can only set an NR for the country you represent at the tine you run it, and dual citizens choose when they put on the singlet.

I don't think any of his times should count towards American records. They should only count towards Kenyan records. Only people who immigrate before the age of 18 should be allowed to compete for a country. It would help put a stop to the mercenary athletes that are showing up in the US, Turkey, Germany, the UK, and even places like Bahrain. Put a stop to this please!

Is it dumb because USATF should have done this a long time ago, in accordance with the rules? If he was replacing Webb's mile record, that might be something to get excited about. But he's not. So it's not. He is just breaking his own USA record (3:29.30), and the next best Americans are South African American Sydnee Maree (3:29.77) and Matt Centrowitz (3:30.40). Who is tangibly "harmed" by this decision? So far, no one. Maybe one day, some future American that may or may not ever exist, unless he is another Kenyan.

max siegel deserves 7 figures? wrote:

Imagine if Lagat wasn't breaking his own record but was instead beating Alan Webb's mile record.

sc42 wrote:

Bedrock American value. If tou don’t like that one, hand over your right to free assembly and speech, too.

But I do agree with you about eligibilty for NRs. You can only set an NR for the country you represent at the tine you run it, and dual citizens choose when they put on the singlet.

That does not make sense. What if you never represented any country? What do you do? This situation would be common in age group records.

paper wurks wrote:

asdghj wrote:

Kenya does not allow dual citizenship. If Lagat had come clean, he would not have been able to compete for Kenya in the 2004 Olympics. He didn't have USA citizenship long enough before the 2004 Olympics to compete for the USA, so he would have missed out on the 2004 Olympics.

Lagat was a US citizen one the day he took his oath, there is no waiting period beyond that point. "USA citizenship long enough" is a BS made up rule simply to cover for the time it take to "get to" the paperwork. Once some is legally a US citizen is all that is necessary. Leave the discussions on when someone is a real citizen to the US government.

You have a transfer period when changing countries. IAAF rules. He liked about his citizenship so he could run for Kenya because he didn't become American early enough to transfer.

Also, USA does not recognize dual citizenship. If Bernard would have shown his USA passsport to Kenya officials OR his Kenyan passport to USA officials he would have been in trouble bigly.

Just walked into the conversation wrote:

polevaultpower wrote:

Moving forward, you will need to be Team USA-eligible to set American Records.

The rules committee was not comfortable making a rule retroactive. So any marks that _should_ have been ratified in the past, under the old rules, were, but marks by dual citizens like Mondo, set 2019 or later, will not be American Records if they are not Team USA eligible.

How is Mondo not team USA eligible? As a US citizen, couldn't he qualify for a team USA championship at any time?

He is not eligible for USATF championship events and would need a change of allegiance to be eligible which takes time to do.

The post is correct, soon it will be Team USA eligible for an American Record, it's dumb that it is possible you could be at the USATF championship, which as an American only citizen is your only option to qualify for worlds (probably competing at 110 degrees in Sacramento) only to find out the American Record you were chasing and thought you broke was actually broken earlier in the day in Oslo by a dual citizen that was given an auto-birth to the world championship by say Bahrain or Greece or Peru.

So what? wrote:

Who is tangibly "harmed" by this decision? So far, no one.

The top of the second page here says that Keni Harrison and Sharika Nelvis lost their indoor national record to Kallur.

Nothanks wrote:

I don't think any of his times should count towards American records. They should only count towards Kenyan records. Only people who immigrate before the age of 18 should be allowed to compete for a country. It would help put a stop to the mercenary athletes that are showing up in the US, Turkey, Germany, the UK, and even places like Bahrain. Put a stop to this please!

THIS!!!!! Late entry for post of the year!

This seems like a good place to introduce the fact that Lagat is an excused doper who shouldn't be the official holder of any records, Kenyan or American. Yes he's an amazing, amazing competitor. But for 15 years now people have been swallowing his claims about the "false" positive EPO test in 2003, because he smiles a lot and is likable and genial in person. He's been running for Nike for his entire pro career, in effect guaranteeing near-total protecting from anti-doping agencies (and obviously he's not the only one).

The least USATF could do at this point is not award him records of questionable provenance. Which makes it perfectly reasonable that the did so, since USATF is as incompetent as it is corrupt.

Nothanks wrote:

Only people who immigrate before the age of 18 should be allowed to compete for a country.

As long as you’re arbitrarily stripping citizens of rights, where do you want to stop. Can they vote? Work? Eat out at Italian joints? Fart in public?

Facts are Facts wrote:

Just walked into the conversation wrote:

How is Mondo not team USA eligible? As a US citizen, couldn't he qualify for a team USA championship at any time?

He is not eligible for USATF championship events and would need a change of allegiance to be eligible which takes time to do.

The post is correct, soon it will be Team USA eligible for an American Record, it's dumb that it is possible you could be at the USATF championship, which as an American only citizen is your only option to qualify for worlds (probably competing at 110 degrees in Sacramento) only to find out the American Record you were chasing and thought you broke was actually broken earlier in the day in Oslo by a dual citizen that was given an auto-birth to the world championship by say Bahrain or Greece or Peru.

What does it take to change allegiance? A signed piece of paper and a waiting period to process that piece of paper?

paper wurks wrote:

asdghj wrote:

Kenya does not allow dual citizenship. If Lagat had come clean, he would not have been able to compete for Kenya in the 2004 Olympics. He didn't have USA citizenship long enough before the 2004 Olympics to compete for the USA, so he would have missed out on the 2004 Olympics.

Lagat was a US citizen one the day he took his oath, there is no waiting period beyond that point. "USA citizenship long enough" is a BS made up rule simply to cover for the time it take to "get to" the paperwork. Once some is legally a US citizen is all that is necessary. Leave the discussions on when someone is a real citizen to the US government.

+1

Please take the citizenship question away from the USATF. A government granting citizenship is all that is needed. Any records should match up with the date citizenship is granted.

Dur wrote:

paper wurks wrote:

Lagat was a US citizen one the day he took his oath, there is no waiting period beyond that point. "USA citizenship long enough" is a BS made up rule simply to cover for the time it take to "get to" the paperwork. Once some is legally a US citizen is all that is necessary. Leave the discussions on when someone is a real citizen to the US government.

You have a transfer period when changing countries. IAAF rules. He liked about his citizenship so he could run for Kenya because he didn't become American early enough to transfer.

Also, USA does not recognize dual citizenship. If Bernard would have shown his USA passsport to Kenya officials OR his Kenyan passport to USA officials he would have been in trouble bigly.

The point the poster made was: get rid of the dumb transfer rules. If someone has dual citizenship their first country of citizenship takes precedence .

Getting the IAAF out of the who-is-a-citizen thinking would prevent issues like Rai Benjamin trapped in citizenship limbo for more than a year by our "officials." He can't compete for any county because … "decision makers".

Coached Fitness Blogger wrote:

This seems like a good place to introduce the fact that Lagat is an excused doper...

You mean the tampered with A sample that was tossed out? If Lagat was a doper there would be a real positive test. But he has given hundreds of samples for some 20 years and ..... nothing. So, move along moran, until you can provide a real positive test for Lagat. You have hundreds of samples to make your case. Get to work.

Because of Lagat? This thread is about Lagat. Why not start a Kallur thread instead.

Craig T wrote:

So what? wrote:

Who is tangibly "harmed" by this decision? So far, no one.

The top of the second page here says that Keni Harrison and Sharika Nelvis lost their indoor national record to Kallur.

You are just wrong that citizenship is automatic only for birth in U.S. territories. All children of United States citizens are automatic United States citizens.

"The Constitution directly addresses the minimum qualifications necessary to serve as President. In addition to requiring thirty-five years of age and fourteen years of residency, the Constitution limits the presidency to “a natural born Citizen.”

1. U.S. Const. art. II, § 1, cl. 5.

All the sources routinely used to interpret the Constitution confirm that the phrase “natural born Citizen” has a specific meaning: namely, someone who was a U.S. citizen at birth with no need to go through a naturalization proceeding at some later time. And Congress has made equally clear from the time of the framing of the Constitution to the current day that, subject to certain residency requirements on the parents, someone born to a U.S. citizen parent generally becomes a U.S. citizen without regard to whether the birth takes place in Canada, the Canal Zone, or the continental United States."

https://harvardlawreview.org/2015/03/on-the-meaning-of-natural-born-citizen/

This is the right decision by the rule and its application to Mondo's case. It does harm anyone trying to break the record in the sense that it makes it very, very difficult. The best runner in the world currently is a second off this time, and no American born athlete has broken 3:30.

Also was Lagat s EPO days!!!!

I blame Seneca Lassiter.