new coach crushing my kid

Talk to the coach. If nothing comes of it, get the other parents involved. Don't have her quit the team though.

Is there a club in the area she could train with instead of high school?

Maybe your kid is just having a down year. So take that into consideration instead of just blaming everything on the coach which is the easy thing to do. Maybe your daughter just can't cut it or maybe she is hitting that point that many hit and that is the point of decline or maybe it really is the coach. But the easy thing to do is to blame someone else.

soulcrushingcoach wrote:

My kid is a Jr, so the most important year to show a strong performance for colleges. We just transferred to a new state and the new coach is horrible. She was on pace for a scholarship opportunity running 2:15 in the 800 and 438 in the 1500 as a sophomore and hitting a new PRs each year. This fool has them on the track 4 times a week doing hard workouts plus races on the weekend and she just can't perform on non-stop tired legs. She has not come close to her sophomore PRs. He won't listen to reason as he has had some significant success with other runners and screams at her as clearly her decline in performance is something he takes personally. Her two brothers were All-American and one is available to coach her. How do you break from an abusive coach in HS?

OP, were you a high school T&F athlete? Four track workouts a week is normal for a high school T&F program. I'm assuming you read the jogging books sold at B&N. I guess you do one track workout a week one or two months a year and jog slowly the rest of the time.

maybe it's not the coach wrote:

Maybe your kid is just having a down year. So take that into consideration instead of just blaming everything on the coach which is the easy thing to do. Maybe your daughter just can't cut it or maybe she is hitting that point that many hit and that is the point of decline or maybe it really is the coach. But the easy thing to do is to blame someone else.

Point of decline? She’s a Junior in high school! No one just “declines” in high school, absent some sort of problem.

OP, disregard this absolute BS.

While it might be true that a lot of coaches are like that (I know of at least one like that locally), it certainly doesn't mean that's the best approach to take... I find that two days per week on the track works pretty well.

FrenchDawg wrote:

Kind of normal wrote:

OP, were you a high school T&F athlete? Four track workouts a week is normal for a high school T&F program. I'm assuming you read the jogging books sold at B&N. I guess you do one track workout a week one or two months a year and jog slowly the rest of the time.

OP, disregard this absolute BS.

You can state disregard and call my post bull sh!t, but h.s. T&F coaches having kids doing 4 track workouts a week is not abnormal. Because you don't like what I stated doesn't make my post incorrect.

track workouts 4x week is way too much.

A few kids may thrive on that but not many. most would benefit from switching one of those to a tempo run and one to a long easy run.

Four times a week on the track is a lot these days. It once was normal or low normal. The thing is, we don't know what's happening in those track sessions. It is possible to run on the track and go too hard but it's also possible for a coach who knows what he's doing to have runners on the track and be fresh. Overly hard training and track training are not synonymous. It's WHAT they're doing on the track that matters, not the simple act of running on a track. If a kid's performances are deteriorating the athlete, or MAYBE, the parent, needs to talk with the coach. We don't know enough here to know what's going on.

She’s becoming a woman. It’s not unusual to see girls take a step back as their body changes.

Some high school T&F programs have as many assistant coaches as do NCAA D1 programs. If a head coach can divide the 800m runners, 1600m runners and 3200m runners in separate groups and then further divide athletes into JV and varsity, great! If a coach feels he/she has to train 800m, 1600m & 3200m runners as one group, four workouts a week may be more than optimal for 3200m specialists. Four workouts a week seems perfect for h.s. 800m specialists. If coach sees best athletes are 800m athletes, the program should favor them. One of the workouts may be 15 x 100m with plenty of rest. Posters agreeing with OP that head T&F coach is wrong because head T&F coach has athletes doing four workouts a week are stating their own biases.

soulcrushingcoach wrote:

My kid is a Jr, so the most important year to show a strong performance for colleges. We just transferred to a new state and the new coach is horrible. She was on pace for a scholarship opportunity running 2:15 in the 800 and 438 in the 1500 as a sophomore and hitting a new PRs each year. This fool has them on the track 4 times a week doing hard workouts plus races on the weekend and she just can't perform on non-stop tired legs. She has not come close to her sophomore PRs. He won't listen to reason as he has had some significant success with other runners and screams at her as clearly her decline in performance is something he takes personally. Her two brothers were All-American and one is available to coach her. How do you break from an abusive coach in HS?

4 track workouts a week is insanely stupid. Plus racing on the weekend? That's hard to believe anyone is actually doing that. I think there may be some confusion. Could you tell us more about these 4 hard track workouts a week?

Also, it's December so how do you know she isn't going to run 2:15 and 4:38 or better in 5-6 months when it matters?

I'm struggling to believe the 4 hard workouts plus 1 race a week bit.

Mouth Breather wrote:

She’s becoming a woman. It’s not unusual to see girls take a step back as their body changes.

This.

Now stop blaming the coach. Sorry that you're disappointed OP but it happens. Many a fast fresh and soph end up as slower Jrs and srs. It is called life.

soulcrushingcoach wrote:

My kid is a Jr, so the most important year to show a strong performance for colleges. We just transferred to a new state and the new coach is horrible. She was on pace for a scholarship opportunity running 2:15 in the 800 and 438 in the 1500 as a sophomore and hitting a new PRs each year. This fool has them on the track 4 times a week doing hard workouts plus races on the weekend and she just can't perform on non-stop tired legs. She has not come close to her sophomore PRs. He won't listen to reason as he has had some significant success with other runners and screams at her as clearly her decline in performance is something he takes personally. Her two brothers were All-American and one is available to coach her. How do you break from an abusive coach in HS?

You are worried about her times in December?

Typical week for Jim Ryun in high school:

Sunday

10 mile run in approximately 1hr 4mins.

Monday

AM: 5 mile run.

PM: Track session. 2 mile (in 9:50), one mile (in 5 mins), 1200m, 800m (in 2:30), 400 (64 secs), 2 x 200m (31 secs). Short 1-2 minute recovery between reps.

Tuesday

AM: 5 mile run.

PM: Speed work. Reps of 200m, 300m, 110m, 150m. With decent recovery between reps.

Wednesday

AM: 5 mile run.

PM: 50 x 400m in 69 secs starting one every 3 minutes (on a 3 minute cycle).

Thursday

AM: 5 mile run.

PM: 18 x 800m reps.

Friday

AM: 5 mile run.

PM: Fartlek session around the track.

Saturday

Race

If no race then 1 long temp. For example a 16 mile run at 6:00 per mile.

kind of normal wrote:

FrenchDawg wrote:

OP, disregard this absolute BS.

You can state disregard and call my post bull sh!t, but h.s. T&F coaches having kids doing 4 track workouts a week is not abnormal. Because you don't like what I stated doesn't make my post incorrect.

So a week in your world would include, what, 4 track workouts, a tempo run, a race, and one easy day? Just trying to figure out how I would have fit two extra track workouts into my high school training.

Hounddogharrier wrote:

You are worried about her times in December?

I wondered about this too. Is girls fall/indoor track a common thing in high school today? Do they run the 800 and 1500?

soulcrushingcoach wrote:

My kid is a Jr, so the most important year to show a strong performance for colleges. We just transferred to a new state and the new coach is horrible. She was on pace for a scholarship opportunity running 2:15 in the 800 and 438 in the 1500 as a sophomore and hitting a new PRs each year. This fool has them on the track 4 times a week doing hard workouts plus races on the weekend and she just can't perform on non-stop tired legs. She has not come close to her sophomore PRs. He won't listen to reason as he has had some significant success with other runners and screams at her as clearly her decline in performance is something he takes personally. Her two brothers were All-American and one is available to coach her. How do you break from an abusive coach in HS?

You want her to have a normal high school experience with teammates and races.

If the coach will not back down and develop a reasonable program then you must

have her join a club. There are summer AAU and USATF track & field meets. Often

your state will have more than one club which practices for those meets. You might

have to drive extensive distances to get her to those practices.

I would tell the coach your plans. If he still will not back down you may try having her

dogg some workouts.

Like say for instance if they run 10 x 400 on Monday, followed by 20 x 200 on Tuesday.

Have her run the 200s at a slower pace than the 400s. Have her finish last in all of them.

If she feels good on Wednesday have her do what they are doing. If not, again have her

follow the team. Have your All-American sons monitor her training.

Do not train to train. Train to prepare to race. Only race on race days. You may have to

give her a moderately long run on weekends to make up for lack of one during the week.

But if she is sore, or showing other abnormal body signs, rest is better.

If I were this coach I would not back off. Therefore you must be proactive and have your

girl do easier running. It is hard to bring them back after an injury, illness, or staleness.

I've never had a kid dogg training like this. It is sure to anger him/her.

But what can he do other than yell at her? He might take her out of a race. Missing a few races can

actually be beneficial for her. While the team is away you can have her get some extra

miles and come back stronger than ever. The point is to have her be ready to race.