After watching every sub elite i know set huge PRs all season in the Cheaterflys I caved and bought a pair - gotta admit after rocking them I’m curious how they are even legal as the advantage doesn’t even seem small, the energy return and spring feeling is quite prominent.
Also I heard Nike isn’t making anymore of these shoes - thoughts?
obvious solution would be to ban all shoes outright. bare feet good enough for budd good enough for everybody.
The reason that things like PEDs are illegal in training for elite races (and sub elite) is because they give the people taking them an unfair advantage for recovery. In a nutshell their recovery happens faster than person that doesn't take PEDs. The Zoomflys don't make you recover faster, they only push your foot back in the original shape of the carbon fiber/carbon infused plate. It is like wearing a super old sweat suit to work out in or a more modern dry-fit material. While you could do a lot in the old style sweat suit, the dry fit keeps in the heat just as well but allows sweat to evaporate and not cause your clothing to weigh you down.
Paul Bunyan’s wrote:
After watching every sub elite i know set huge PRs all season in the Cheaterflys I caved and bought a pair - gotta admit after rocking them I’m curious how they are even legal as the advantage doesn’t even seem small, the energy return and spring feeling is quite prominent.
Also I heard Nike isn’t making anymore of these shoes - thoughts?
They are race-legal because they are available to everybody, they do not pose a medical risk, and they do not conflict with any general laws (such as illegal distribution of prescription drugs).
They arguably shouldn't be legal because they may represent a significant advantage which distorts our ability to properly judge performances historically (of course, the same could be said for rubberized tracks), and they open up a 'slippery slope' type situation whereby spring technology is now fair game.
I'm not really sure what to think, personally.
Paul Bunyan’s wrote:
Also I heard Nike isn’t making anymore of these shoes - thoughts?
source?
Would you say Vaporflys are the BU of road racing shoes?
Remove the carbon fiber plate and no one would complain. You can't run with some ludicrous bugs bunny spring all the way down the marathon course and expect anyone to take your new PR seriously.
Vaporfly Asterisk wrote:
Remove the carbon fiber plate and no one would complain. You can't run with some ludicrous bugs bunny spring all the way down the marathon course and expect anyone to take your new PR seriously.
I didn’t read e Hutchison article but the headline I saw said that the plate was only like 2% of the difference and the real energy return difference is the foam. You can thank Canada for that contribution. As don cherry would say Alex Hutchison good Canadian boy!
compressed wrote:
Paul Bunyan’s wrote:
After watching every sub elite i know set huge PRs all season in the Cheaterflys I caved and bought a pair - gotta admit after rocking them I’m curious how they are even legal as the advantage doesn’t even seem small, the energy return and spring feeling is quite prominent.
Also I heard Nike isn’t making anymore of these shoes - thoughts?
They are race-legal because they are available to everybody, they do not pose a medical risk, and they do not conflict with any general laws (such as illegal distribution of prescription drugs).
They arguably shouldn't be legal because they may represent a significant advantage which distorts our ability to properly judge performances historically (of course, the same could be said for rubberized tracks), and they open up a 'slippery slope' type situation whereby spring technology is now fair game.
I'm not really sure what to think, personally.
“Spring technology” lol
Paul Bunyan’s wrote:
Also I heard Nike isn’t making anymore of these shoes - thoughts?
Arguably their most successful (both on the elite level and on the commercial level) running shoe in the past 20 years that is still sought after and sells out almost immediately everytime it drops...
Yeah, we're going to need a rock-solid source or this little nugget that you're throwing out there, chief.
That report was completely embarrassing pseudo-science. They didn't even look at the plate and foam components in isolation, merely guessed based upon the bending involved.
But here's the thing - the carbon fiber plate does sit on top of foam. So the plate is supported by the foam until the foam deteriorates, then I guess the point of lever begins to go and that is why their effectiveness becomes shot so quickly.
Wow21 wrote:
Vaporfly Asterisk wrote:
Remove the carbon fiber plate and no one would complain. You can't run with some ludicrous bugs bunny spring all the way down the marathon course and expect anyone to take your new PR seriously.
I didn’t read e Hutchison article but the headline I saw said that the plate was only like 2% of the difference and the real energy return difference is the foam. You can thank Canada for that contribution. As don cherry would say Alex Hutchison good Canadian boy!
Great, then remove the plate and no one will have a problem with them!
Paul Bunyan’s wrote:
After watching every sub elite i know set huge PRs all season in the Cheaterflys I caved and bought a pair - gotta admit after rocking them I’m curious how they are even legal as the advantage doesn’t even seem small, the energy return and spring feeling is quite prominent.
Also I heard Nike isn’t making anymore of these shoes - thoughts?
Sorry, but this is an irrelevant post. You mentioned 'rocking' the 4%, but didn't provide race result or your PB's.
It seems obvious that the "spring" comes from the foam and the plate is their for stability to keep from blowing out your ankle. If the plate was the spring, it wouldn't wear out so quickly.
Paul Bunyan’s wrote:
After watching every sub elite i know set huge PRs all season in the Cheaterflys I caved and bought a pair - gotta admit after rocking them I’m curious how they are even legal as the advantage doesn’t even seem small, the energy return and spring feeling is quite prominent.
Also I heard Nike isn’t making anymore of these shoes - thoughts?
Sincere replies notwithstanding, this sounds like a cheesy Nike sales intern post. My apologies if you are VP of sales.
midnitelamp wrote:
obvious solution would be to ban all shoes outright. bare feet good enough for budd good enough for everybody.
Vibrams for everybody!
YMMV wrote:
It seems obvious that the "spring" comes from the foam and the plate is their for stability to keep from blowing out your ankle. If the plate was the spring, it wouldn't wear out so quickly.
Say what? The foam would "blow out our ankles"!! Ho ho, please can you explain this as it sounds fantastical?
Are our ankles in danger of being blown out from any other shoe foams? Should Nike be offering these plates to other manufacturers for the good of all mankind?
compressed wrote:
They are race-legal because they are available to everybody...
They aren't reasonably available to runners with other sponsors. Unless you consider it reasonable for them to give up their pro-runner gig just to use a different shoe.
Sprint spikes have had stiff plates for years, and there are studies showing a 1-4% improvement over 100 meters for athletes using stiff spike plates versus not. That accounts for nearly all the improvement in the sprint records over the last 30 years!
The point being that we have evidence that footwear has been effecting track records for years, the only new thing here is now it’s effecting the marathon (and half) record.
No matter how many unscientific arguments you ignorant home schoolers make, no passive shoe (or track surface) will let you run faster than your natural potential.