Nationalism on letsrun is out of hand "fantastic time of 2:13"

They are, literally, nearly three miles behind Kipchoge's world record run. Embarrassing.

Not everyone's a world beater.

And a .250 batting average can be pretty awesome for someone just jumping up to the big leagues. Same with 2:13 marathons.

Nationalism is bad? Support your local HS, your college alma mater and local college, and support your country. If everyone in the US did that, it would be a better place and we would have better athletics. Austin's HS teammate or more accurately, his brother's HS teammate, was a kid who ran sub 9. He is by appearance, a minority. Had he finished behind Austin in 2:13, the story would be even greater having 2 kids from the same HS running so fast. It would not matter what race the kid is. Why bring race into the conversation? Be happy for these guys. They are probably reading this right now. 2:13 is not world class but fast enough to get them into some nice races where they can earn a living for a few years. I am proud of all Americans whether it is Austin, Stilin, Keflezighi, Rupp, or Chelimo. They are all equally American.

I think op has a point. If a Kenyan finished third in a marathon with 2:13, he probably wouldn't get a write up.

If my last name was Stilin, I wouldn't name my kid Joseph.

This wasn't the world championship, it was the US Championship. A kid who runs 9:10 at your local conference track meet probably gets a writeup but he wouldn't get one from NB Nationals when he competes there. A D3 kid breaking 4 minutes in the mile in D3 gets a huge writeup but he would only be a top 100 in D1. Should countries not congratulate their athletes who break national records if they are not world class? I don't like the anti-US sentiment of some of the posters.

This dude, in the 70s, ran several marathons each year faster than any active US marathoner today (I say this on the pretext that Rupp is no longer a marathoner until he runs one again):

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6f/f3/ab/6ff3abf048a80ba90bfcdb607362a672--running-man-fukuoka.jpg

And this is indeed odd. No matter that the world is crazy fast these days, everywhere but here, but participants in every single sport on earth have evolved to be better, stronger, faster. Except in the US, where our marathoners are at a junior varsity level, at best.

Callerouter wrote:

Letsrun staff, in your write up of the marathon champs you wrote "ZAP Fitness Reebok teammates Josh Izewski and Joseph Stilin placed third and fourth in fantastic times of 2:13:14 and 2:13:19... "

Fantastic? That's over 20s per mile slower than the world record. Not to take anything away from the "blue collar" (read white) runners who are pushing their personal limits. Do some serious self reflection: does the hype of white runners that fit in the Wejo version of the American dream help or hurt the sport?

Your ‘ “blue collar" (read white)’ interpretation is just that: your interpretation. “Blue collar” has a definition and it has nothing to do with race.

Yes, nationalism is an awful, horrible, avert-your-eyes thing.

You’d make a great EU citizen.

I agree that blue collar has a definition, but how frequently is it used to describe a non white athlete on this website? Typically athletes who are minorities are described as "incredible talents" or "gifted" suggesting they dont work as hard as "workhorse" or "blue collar" white athletes. Context is everything. Not accusing Brojos of racism, just asking that they consider the differences in their language when describing athletes who look like them and those that don't.

What point?? wrote:

This wasn't the world championship, it was the US Championship. A kid who runs 9:10 at your local conference track meet probably gets a writeup but he wouldn't get one from NB Nationals when he competes there. A D3 kid breaking 4 minutes in the mile in D3 gets a huge writeup but he would only be a top 100 in D1. Should countries not congratulate their athletes who break national records if they are not world class? I don't like the anti-US sentiment of some of the posters.

sub 4 is fast enough to make the top 100 in D1, even with 1500 meter equivalent times it would be in the top 50

That was not our writeup. It was a press release put out by USATF (and at the top, you'll see "By USATF Communications").

It doesn't reflect the views of LetsRun.com, but we wanted to get a recap up on the homepage and that's the one we found.

I don't think any of the LetsRun staffers would call them "fantastic times." Perhaps for the individual runners they were fantastic, but objectively fantastic? No.

Callerouter wrote:

Letsrun staff, in your write up of the marathon champs you wrote "ZAP Fitness Reebok teammates Josh Izewski and Joseph Stilin placed third and fourth in fantastic times of 2:13:14 and 2:13:19... "

Fantastic? That's over 20s per mile slower than the world record. Not to take anything away from the "blue collar" (read white) runners who are pushing their personal limits. Do some serious self reflection: does the hype of white runners that fit in the Wejo version of the American dream help or hurt the sport?

As a running community, we should be encouraging every male sub-48 400m runner; we should encourage every female sub-54 400m athlete. We should not only encourage the athletes with height to weight ratio of 1.9 pounds per inch or less. 180lbs. males and 150lbs, females, also. We are close in 800m. The Marathon is the event to which brojos eventually gravitated. Brojos weren't born Marathoners. I know they raced their share of 400m relay legs as teenagers. US can get back on top and stay on top in 800m. A lot of talk about sub-elites on letsrun. We need to show 400m sub-elites love. Sub-elite 400m athletes can become elite 800m runners. The Marathon for US is done. Kipchoge racing 2:01:xx and US runners racing 2:12.xx(+) shows it is time to move away from Marathon. If USAT&F were a for profit enterprise, the CEO would drop US men Marathon. Do you think the Ethiopian running community is investing in 100m and 110mH athletes?

racism under every rock? wrote:

Callerouter wrote:

Letsrun staff, in your write up of the marathon champs you wrote "ZAP Fitness Reebok teammates Josh Izewski and Joseph Stilin placed third and fourth in fantastic times of 2:13:14 and 2:13:19... "

Fantastic? That's over 20s per mile slower than the world record. Not to take anything away from the "blue collar" (read white) runners who are pushing their personal limits. Do some serious self reflection: does the hype of white runners that fit in the Wejo version of the American dream help or hurt the sport?

Your ‘ “blue collar" (read white)’ interpretation is just that: your interpretation. “Blue collar” has a definition and it has nothing to do with race.

Yes, nationalism is an awful, horrible, avert-your-eyes thing.

You’d make a great EU citizen.

Do you really think your BS convinces anyone other than other white guys in denial?

White American guys aren't as good at the marathon as Africans at this point in history. Is that permissable to state? If they can't say that the guys are blue collar runners, I guess the alternative is to say that Joe Stilin and Brogan Austin are world class

but they just don't work hard enough.

gritty with deceptive speed wrote:

racism under every rock? wrote:

Your ‘ “blue collar" (read white)’ interpretation is just that: your interpretation. “Blue collar” has a definition and it has nothing to do with race.

Yes, nationalism is an awful, horrible, avert-your-eyes thing.

You’d make a great EU citizen.

Do you really think your BS convinces anyone other than other white guys in denial?

Not really. That’s why I got an MS and a PhD, too, and as a rule aim to debate fellow women of other ethnicities as vigorously as white men.

racism under every rock? wrote:

gritty with deceptive speed wrote:

Do you really think your BS convinces anyone other than other white guys in denial?

Not really. That’s why I got an MS and a PhD, too, and as a rule aim to debate fellow women of other ethnicities as vigorously as white men.

Ouch. That will leave a mark

Under an amateur set of conditions ie: no pay for running, no PEDs or blood doping and dodgy agents/coaches and what not, these guys are likely as good as Kipchoge. Applaud them for their efforts - they are indeed fantastic.

Bill did run his fair share of 2:13-2:14 Marathons.

in the past decade, only 17 American men have run 2:12 or faster, so that makes 2:13 a "fantastic time"

in fact if you expand that back to 2000 the number only goes up to 24, but what's *really* interesting is that number DOUBLES if you go back to 1980, so either environment or PED or marathons in the USA have plummeted for elite athletes

https://www.iaaf.org/records/all-time-toplists/road-running/marathon/outdoor/men/senior?regionType=countries&region=usa&drop=regular&fiftyPercentRule=regular&page=1&bestResultsOnly=true&firstDay=2008-01-01&lastDay=2018-12-01