5:02 as a freshman, is sub 4:20 possible by senior year?

Are there any seniors on your team who have run the times that you're posting about? Have they been running under the same coach that you have right now?

If so, just trust your coach and don't over think it. And tell him/her what your goals are so it's made clear.

Yes, it is possible. I did it. Here are the things I wish I knew as a frosh, because I made a ton of mistakes that caused injuries and setbacks, and I believe I left a lot on the table.

Here is how to do it:

1. Be consistent.

-Train even when you're not in season.

-Don't do nothing one week then a ton the next.

-Rest as planned. A week or two off after each season is helpful, mentally and physically. Then build back slowly.

2. Be Patient.

-Don't rush to build up mileage, do it slowly and listen to your body. If you're at 25 miles a week now, make a plan to average 40 a week over the course of the year as a soph, 50-55 a week average as a junior, and 65 as a senior. These are yearly averages. So you'll be lower in the beginning of the year, and higher at the end. Make a plan to build it sllllowly.

-Don't always treat the next race as the most important race. It's ok to be a little tired during some races in the beginning and middle of seasons. Don't sacrifice your training to be a little better in those races.

3. ALWAYS do the little things.

-Abs, weights, form drills. Doing these consistently 2-4 times a week each over the course of your high school career will not only help prevent injury but will make you stronger, and faster. You don't have to lift many times each session or lift heavy. Doing just a little bit of light lifting consistently for years will be enough.

4. Listen to your body.

-Hit your times when you feel good. Don't race the workouts.

-Push it a little extra if you feel unbelievable (this should not be often)

-Take it back a notch if you're having an off day.

-Take care of injuries as soon as you notice something, don't try to be a hero. See a doc if you need to. However, do learn the difference between a real injury nagging soreness.

5. Eat healthy and drink a lot of water.

-I can not tell you how important this is. I'm a fan of a plant-based diets , but any nutrient rich diet with little fried foods will do. You can get faster simply by changing from a regular American diet to a really healthy one. Here's what I did yesterday:

8am: 2 eggs, whole grain slice of toast.

10am: Greek Yogurt with blueberries

1pm: Kale and spinach salad with red peppers, carrots, tomatoes, and grilled chicken.

5pm: Breakfast sandwich with whole grain bread, avocado, spinach, whole clove of garlic, 2 eggs, a little cheese. Hummus with organic whole grain crackers.

8pm: A sh!t ton of fruit: pineapple, berries, apples, bananas. Really just as much as I feel like eating.

Throughout the day, I also drink about 4-5 cups of green tea + 3-4 cups of water.

Thanks for the advice!

My coach has had a lot of really good girls but the guys haven't been that fast lately. I think the fastest boy he coached was around the low 4:20s. Usually our boys have been high 4:40s or low 4:50s. Those times are pretty good for around here, but I want to go a lot faster.

If you have a MileStat/Split subscription, you can go to "Rankings > Outdoor Lists" in the top menu bar and set up the parameters to search for any kid in the US, or in your state, who, say, ran 4:20 or faster in the mile in 2018. Then, click on a few names, one at a time, to be directed to their individual stat pages. Follow each boy's stats back to his freshman year results, and you'll be able to see a kid's yearly progressions through high school.

This, of course, doesn't tell you their training, but it is an easy way of seeing what others have accomplished after freshman year. If you have that subscription...

The average improvement is 25 seconds which puts you around 4:35. 4:20 is possible but unlikely. I clicked through a dozen seniors who ran 4:20 last year. The fastest freshman time was 4:30 and the slowest was 4:52.

Yes, it's definitely possible. Check out this guy I knew and his progression: https://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/Athlete.aspx?AID=1499930#!/L0

I think he ran about 60mpw or more before his senior year.

My HS Progression -

FR - 4:59

SO - 4:32

JR - 4:28

SR - 4:18

But I kept mileage steady at about 16-22 miles/week and just raced about 3 x week either 4 x 800m and 3200m or the occasional 1600m.

Predictor wrote:

The average improvement is 25 seconds which puts you around 4:35. 4:20 is possible but unlikely. .

Huh?

Definitely possible, but you are going to have to work hard. Form drills, core, work on leg speed, and get the volume up. This is basically a two-and-one-half year plan for you at this point, so just take it one year at a time. See what you can do this year and go from there. 4:40 would be a good start. You might want to start doubling a few days a week as a way of getting your mileage up and start increasing the length of your long run. Do NOT neglect the long run. Progression style if you feel good on the day. Go for it and good luck!

Oh, and get nine hours of sleep every night. This is the one area that high school kids tend to not take seriously. If you want to be good, you need to sleep...

Groundhog Day

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9098521

This is some of the best advice you can get on Letsrun: Especially parts 4 and 5 since they are often neglected. These are things that most young runners don't do but make points 1,2,3 work like a charm: don't push too hard and take care of the nutrition.

Original Poster, listen to Important Advice post.

What he said is nearly exactly what I did. I fully support that mileage buildup, and the workouts. If you feel good one day in practice, let it loose. If you're sore from a previous hard session, take it easy. Don't get crazy on the diet though, you don't have to over think it and be perfect. Just eat a variety of healthy foods and try not to go crazy on the junk food. You can certainly still have some ice cream or a cookie and some chips here and there, just don't eat a ton of that stuff. Make an effort to make most of your food healthy food.

My progression was 4:59, 4:36, 4:18, 4:14 during high school.

Amazing that the same times that were good in the 1990s and early 2000s are still relevant today.

I did 4:51 as a freshman and 4:31 as a senior, but I ran the 3200m a lot more junior and senior year. I also trained a lot more than you did freshman year so I didn't have as much room to improve. A lot will depend on your overall speed. I was a 58 sec 400 m man as a senior, the slowest of our distance team. If you get down to 53-55 sec for the 400 m you may have a shot.

Honestly dude, you never really know. Everyone has a different genetic ceiling. Prefontaine was a 5:05 kid his freshman year and ended up running an 8:40 two mile. But there are also kids who run 4:25 their freshman year and improve maybe 5 seconds through their entire 4 years. If you put in the work I can definitely see you gettin down to 4:40s in the next year and after that who knows. Maybe you'll plateau at 4:35 or maybe you will explode and find yourself running 4:18 as a junior and even faster as a senior. The best advice I can give you is to train harder every year (increase mileage and intensity as you get older) and stay consistent as possible without gettin injured.

The average improvement from freshman year to senior year is 25 seconds. My point was that he can hit 4:20 but the odds are against him and that he will likely be around 4:35. It is as likely that he runs 4:20 as a senior as it is that he runs 4:50.

It wouldn’t rise to the level of being amazing if true but it is not true. 4:05 used to lead the nation but we have guys breaking 4 minutes now. 4:10 was a great time in the 90s but doesn’t even win some state meets today. There were years when only 1 guy would break 9 minutes and now we have dozens of guys do it.