Best High school coaches in country?

runner1234321 wrote:

I think you have to give the following coaching staff a lot of credit:

Greak Oak

FM

CBA

Saratoga

Woodlands

any other?

American Fork, naperville schools, york.

I especially vouch for American Fork because in addition to coaching distance running this is a human being I would genuinely enjoy conversing with beyond just running sports and about life in general.

Interesting debate ...

There is a group of “top high school coaches” that do a great job of overtraining and making teenagers singularly focused . Not best for kids development as people or runners. But great for results at the hs level. Coaches that want to win - don’t let kids fail because of poor decisions - the learning expeirebcd hs kids need and developvelop from . Winning is full control of athletes

Two from Colorado come to mind.

1. Greg Weich - formerly of Smoky Hill, now at Broomfield.

2. Jonathan Dalby of Mountain Vista.

Timo at AF gets my vote as well. If I were looking for the best balance of success in high school and success at the next level, Timo is tops. His AF boys make up a majority of the travel squad at BYU.

Doug Soles is a tremendous high school coach, who gets a lot out of his runners in high school and exposes them to really cool experiences but as is oft cited, his runners don’t do much at the next level.

Bill Aris is something else completely. Having been at NXN, the focus and commitment he gets out of high school girls is just bonkers. But there’s a level of commitment there that may not be fully healthy and his runners struggle at the next level, likely because they aren’t as committed (or don’t feel their teammates are as committed) to the group.

I love Jeff Messer. Very smart. Loves to talk running, training, and coaching. His athletes tend to do well at the next level, and he advocates for his student-athletes to be great students and citizens first. I respect that.

Lastly, the Hunters seem to have figured some things out. We’ll see how their athletes do at the next level in time.

Thbsk wrote:

Interesting debate ...

There is a group of “top high school coaches” that do a great job of overtraining and making teenagers singularly focused . Not best for kids development as people or runners. But great for results at the hs level. Coaches that want to win - don’t let kids fail because of poor decisions - the learning expeirebcd hs kids need and developvelop from . Winning is full control of athletes

The "overtraining" argument is kind of annoying to me. Most of these coaches runners don't become collegiate all americans let alone collegiate champions or professional runners, but not many people do. Not many are born with the ceiling or potential of doing so. These coaches take a small population of kids and get them to as close to maximizing their potential in my opinion. This often gets them to receive scholarships from great schools and pursue professions that aren't running.

Wail Lange, Jesuit , California

Utahn wrote:

Doug Soles is a tremendous high school coach, who gets a lot out of his runners in high school and exposes them to really cool experiences but as is oft cited, his runners don’t do much at the next level.

Yeah lets blame Doug Soles for the lack of success of the runners he's no longer working with. Brilliant. The athletes he works with are used to more volume and intensity. When they choose to go to a school that doesn't follow that same approach you can almost guarantee they aren't going to improve much and are likely to get slower. That is not anybody's fault other than the coach that recruited them. Were they to go to a program like Colorado that isn't afraid to let their athletes be coached like individuals and find their limits then you'd see Great Oak alumni doing much better.

A lot of college coaches are full of it when they are recruiting, telling high school athletes they have individualized coaching and running more mileage is not an issue then reality hits and the coaches want everyone doing the same thing because they are f-in lazy and think a bunch of speedwork can replace volume.

D1 coaches are some of the worst out there. They are often former D1 athletes that got by on their talent despite their coaches average-at-best training programs and then that's all they know themselves and the cycle repeats itself.

Doug Soles would be a phenomenal college coach, especially if he landed a job at a school at elevation.

Bill Gregg- Davis Senior High School

trains kids at low mileage and emphasizes the longevity of running rather than using their athletes for 4 years and leaving them overworked.

Think you meant Walt.

The quality of coaching has greatly increased over the last 15 years. If you look at old post with the same topics there were only 3-5 names that always came up. Newton, Lange, Tyson, Green, and very few others. Now, it seems there are numerous coaches who actually understand what they are doing. All great for the sport.

Baby Bear wrote:

Wail Lange, Jesuit , California

Lange is legendary in the Sacramento area. I spoke with him a few times and found him to be very personable; especially when compared to my coach.

If you're to going consider "over training", Stember is the only guy I remember running well in college. You could argue, though, that the Mastalirs and Thomas physically peaked in HS and that guys who run 9:00-9:10, of which he had many, tend to disappear in D1.

Has no one been watching Newbury Park from Thousand Oaks, California and their coach Sean Brosnan (No relations to Pierce Brosnan).

He took that program with no direction at all and got them the State Title in 3 years for DII. Many schools in California have a slew of talent, but it takes a special person to build a program and get those kids out training and racing to their potential. But, if you know Sean like I do, he has a very unique background that really cultivated those kids into a championship team. Sean has had the opportunity to meet many talented runners and coaches and with that knowledge he built a great program. I'm sure he could do it almost anywhere too! Cheers to him and look him up if you get a chance. Good luck at NXN!!!!

Good observation Doug

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Baby Bear wrote:

Wail Lange, Jesuit , California

Lange is legendary in the Sacramento area. I spoke with him a few times and found him to be very personable; especially when compared to my coach.

If you're to going consider "over training", Stember is the only guy I remember running well in college. You could argue, though, that the Mastalirs and Thomas physically peaked in HS and that guys who run 9:00-9:10, of which he had many, tend to disappear in D1.

Right, because Paul Thomas being a multi national champ and highest ever international placing at the time in duathlon was such a failure. Plus he’s still turning the cranks pretty well despite racing against guys half his age or less. Keep in mind some guys goes off to college for the first time and party pretty hard. Can’t blame that on their high school coach.

Correct.

Thbsk wrote:

Interesting debate ...

Not best for kids development as people or runners.

yeah because those wackos who are perennial losers are the true thinkers in society and parents can't wait to have one of them guide the development of a high school athlete.

Stop messing with HS sports. If you like losing so much, stick to gambling.

Parents and athletes respect Soales and the others mentioned on this thread.

Wrong, the overtraining argument is legit.

Most (not all) of the top HS programs place ridiculous demands on their athletes. They do get buy in, but at a cost. The same schools end up at NXN every year for a reason, because they out train everyone else, or do a great job bringing in transfers. It is not so called great coaching, just put the pedal to the metal and deal with the injuries, just part of the game.

The reason for lack of success at the next level from these kids from the so called great programs is that they are toast, too much too soon, can't maintain the intensity or that level of commitment once they are exposed to the real world.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Baby Bear wrote:

Wail Lange, Jesuit , California

Lange is legendary in the Sacramento area. I spoke with him a few times and found him to be very personable; especially when compared to my coach.

If you're to going consider "over training", Stember is the only guy I remember running well in college. You could argue, though, that the Mastalirs and Thomas physically peaked in HS and that guys who run 9:00-9:10, of which he had many, tend to disappear in D1.

I ran for Coach Lange some time ago. I wasn't a superstar but I was pretty good.

For what it's worth, I can say that I never felt "overtrained". We worked hard, but the majority of the time, it wasn't because Coach Lange was on our backs, it was because we were just a competitive group of friends who all wanted to be fast. My mileage was always pretty moderate (40-50 mpw) and I recall more times when he pulled the reins in on me (kept me from racing a workout, slowing down easy runs, etc.) than barking at me to go faster.

I ran in college and didn't really run faster than I did at Jesuit, but if you looked at the workouts I was doing in high school and what I did in college, I don't think I would've ever been able to run my college workouts as a high schooler, even though my races were faster!

I know the "over training" thing comes up a lot for Jesuit, but for me it was quite the opposite. If I was ever "over-trained" it was AFTER high school. The way I look at it, the best training environment that I've had was under Coach Lange.

need a thermostat wrote:

Wrong, the overtraining argument is legit.

Most (not all) of the top HS programs place ridiculous demands on their athletes. They do get buy in, but at a cost. The same schools end up at NXN every year for a reason, because they out train everyone else, or do a great job bringing in transfers. It is not so called great coaching, just put the pedal to the metal and deal with the injuries, just part of the game.

The reason for lack of success at the next level from these kids from the so called great programs is that they are toast, too much too soon, can't maintain the intensity or that level of commitment once they are exposed to the real world.

It would be helpful to define what constitutes overtraining at the high school level. Same for the college level.

Generally speaking if a male doesn’t have sub 52 400 speed and a female doesn’t have sub 60 400 speed they are going to end up not having what it takes. Is that their college coaches fault? Or the high school coach? Maybe it’s the fault of their 3rd grade PE teacher? Or maybe it’s their parents fault or is it their grandparents fault? Where does the buck stop exactly?

What do you mean by "not having what it takes"? Takes for what? I coached a girl in HS who never broke 65 for 400 (and we ran it often, 4 x 400) was a Div. 1 All-american in college in XC, never won a National title at the NCAA level but was still pretty good.