• Flatground
      registered
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "American Only" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 12:29AM - in reply to GlobalView1
      • Flatground
        registered
      • Rory is not from Saskatchewan, but was born in Alberta and grew up/lives in Utah. That being said, he is a Canadian citizen and represents Canada internationally.
    • Lickety Split
      registered
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "Real American" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 4:59AM - in reply to Jayordon
      • Lickety Split
        registered
      • Jayordon wrote:

        Lickety Split wrote:

        i don't have a name on here wrote:

        Lickety Split wrote:

        - Can't figure out why the mission waiver proves exclusive to LDS vs athletes at Notre Dame, Liberty, Baylor, Holy Cross, Brandeis & other faith-based schools. Why did it end w/the Mormons?

        it's not exclusive to lds athletes it can be for any other religion. there are 3 "Ms". mission military and maternity. the ncaa will give a clock extension to anyone involved in those 3 Ms. doesn't matter the religion.

        - Thanks for clarifying that ONLY BYU is "cashing-in" on this "M."

        Not true actually. NAU has Ryan Raff who will be serving a mission next year and Joe Benson who is on a mission right now. USU has a few out at the moment as well. And those are just the ones that I know of.

        - Wow! Given that the top 2 teams in the nation "cash-in" on the MISSION WAIVER, I may have to rethink my previous recommended evaluation criteria of Altitude, Coaches, Medical, Academics, & Facilities when choosing a school.
    • Lickety Split
      registered
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "American Only" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 5:06AM - in reply to Flatground
      • Lickety Split
        registered
      • Flatground wrote:

        Rory is not from Saskatchewan, but was born in Alberta and grew up/lives in Utah. That being said, he is a Canadian citizen and represents Canada internationally.

        Sorry Rory, have to pull you from Lickety's "American Only All-American" team. I'll pull for y'all after the United States this winter at the World Cross in Aarhus, Denmark. That said, appreciate your parents at least paying taxes. I probably need to think about my criteria again .... if your dual citizenship/parents pay taxes.

        So ... the next Lickety All-American is ...... introducing .... Paul Hogan from UMass-Lowell. Well done Paul!
    • Lickety Split
      registered
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "American Only" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 5:12AM - in reply to Lickety Split
      • Lickety Split
        registered
      • Lickety Split wrote:

        Flatground wrote:

        Rory is not from Saskatchewan, but was born in Alberta and grew up/lives in Utah. That being said, he is a Canadian citizen and represents Canada internationally.

        Sorry Rory, have to pull you from Lickety's "American Only All-American" team. I'll pull for y'all after the United States this winter at the World Cross in Aarhus, Denmark. That said, appreciate your parents at least paying taxes. I probably need to think about my criteria again .... if your dual citizenship/parents pay taxes.

        So ... the next Lickety All-American is ...... introducing .... Paul Hogan from UMass-Lowell. Well done Paul!

        This also further justifies NOT including BYU in Lickety's "Top 5" American programs: thanks Flatground!
    • BS
      registered
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "American Only" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 8:44AM - in reply to Lickety Split
      • BS
        registered
      • Isn't Blaise Ferro US? I know he ran for CBA and hometown is Shrewsbury NJ?
    • Lickety Split
      registered
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "American Only" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 9:56AM - in reply to BS
      • Lickety Split
        registered
      • - Good catch! My bust Blaise Ferro .... a typo. Now this is a Jersey boy that took Lickety's advice --- probably could have gone to any of the IC4A or AMORICA's schools, but took NAU. He followed the criteria ---- all the way down to being an aspiring Parks & Recreation major.

        #1 Altitude

        #2 Coaches

        #3 Medical

        #4 Academics

        #5 Facilities

        - Sorry Paul Logan from UMASS-Lowell, you're back off the team: Psyche!
    • FrenchDawg
      registered
    • AmericanDistanceSucks
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "Real American" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 10:02AM - in reply to Boise Ain't High Enough, and neither is Cascade
      • AmericanDistanceSucks
      • Boise Ain't High Enough, and neither is Cascade wrote:

        vivalarepublica wrote:

        Boise Ain't High Enough, and neither is Cascade wrote:

        Lickety Split wrote:

        - I'm to understand they often train in Cascade, Idaho.

        It's not just the training at the altitude. You have to be at that altitude 24/7. This precisely why those "altitude tents" don't work.

        Make sure to let Rupp know about this after his next Top 5 finish at a major.
        That's why he is Top 5 and not a Champion.

        LMAO
    • yawyeetyaww
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "American Only" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 11:03AM - in reply to FrenchDawg
      • yawyeetyaww
      • Yeah this is some shrimp-dick mega nationalism, this should be deleted.
    • NewtotheSouthSide
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "American Only" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 11:50AM - in reply to FrenchDawg
      • NewtotheSouthSide
      • FrenchDawg wrote:

        This is a disturbing thread, and it should be deleted.

        I emailed LRC and they said they didn't have a problem with it...

        Plausible deniability or something. They think the conversation about recruiting is one to have but then dismissed how this whole thread is someone promoting an anti immigrant message. That was their stated position to me. This is the problem with LRC. They don't moderate actually offensive things.

        For the staff members, who are all white men (nobody has ever corrected this so I assume it's true), you don't fully develop your views when you don't reach out to communities you are not a part of. When/if people from those communities come to this website and see a thread like this, your brand becomes white male. Your brand becomes anti immigrant. You can say that you are inclusive all you want and that we should have a thread about recruiting but nobody who works for the website calls people out when people post anti immigrant messages, racist arguments, sexist nonsense about women's bodies. That would go a long way. Sure someone wants to talk about recruiting, why don't you let them see the right way to do it. Instead, you stay silent and let this thread last.

        It does no good to delete it now, you've already given the OP a platform to spew this garbage.
    • Lickety Split
      registered
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "American Only" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 1:19PM - in reply to NewtotheSouthSide
      • Lickety Split
        registered
      • - The 1st reason LRC doesn't have a problem with the discussion because the analysis focuses upon American-born collegiate athletes that ostensibly come from our secondary schools & are anywhere between 18-22. How did they do?

        - The 2nd reason is that Lickety DOES KNOW that they non American-Born athletes have a "Green Card" thus legally allowed in the United States. And a overwhelming MAJORITY did not come from our secondary schools & range from 18-26 .... or they don't know their age.

        - The 3D reason is that Lickety DOES KNOW that the LDS Mission athletes not only have 2 x year waiver, but a red-shirt season as well which gives them 7 years in a collegiate system. Lickety see's this as an UNFAIR advantage.
    • Lickety Split
      registered
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "Real American" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 1:20PM - in reply to Another Brit
      • Lickety Split
        registered
      • Another Brit wrote:

        Ryan Forsyth has dual citizenship as well (UK)

        I can't revoke "Lickety All-American" status unless you can proved he ran for the Queen.
    • Lickety Split
      registered
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "American Only" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 1:23PM - in reply to FrenchDawg
      • Lickety Split
        registered
      • FrenchDawg wrote:

        This is a disturbing thread, and it should be deleted.

        Emmanuel ROUDOLFF-LEVISSE from the Portland Pilots: your busted!!!
    • byumiler
      registered
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "Real American" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 2:45PM - in reply to nofacetimber
      • byumiler
        registered
      • In light of this and 100’s of other similar threads over the past few decades, on the topic of the BYU mission/age advantage, I would add my personal experience to the debate. People can make assumptions of pros/cons and advantages/disadvantages, but I can only speak for me. My decision to serve a mission was a barrier in achieving my running dreams and potential. Having said that, I wouldn’t have traded my mission experience and looking back, would have made the same decision.

        In high school I was a ranked in the top 5 nationally in the 1600 and 3200. I had significant improvement my freshman year under coach James (the coach of Eyestone, Padilla, Marsh, Cummings) and made it the NCAA final in the 1500 where I lined up with guys like Lagat, Berryhill and Lassiter – pretty stoked just to be there as an 18 year old kid. I had the fastest freshman (and American Jr) 1500 time in the USA (3:43) and things seemed to be going my way. I was rarely, if ever injured and my dreams of national championships and the Olympics seemed on track for where I was for my age/experience.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX1JxsMzvek

        I then had a decision to ride that train or take two years off and serve a mission. I had people tell me I was crazy for stopping what I had going for me, including coaches from other schools. It was a difficult decision, but in the end and trying to keep perspective, felt that though I loved running, it wasn’t my top priority.

        I took two years off and ran very rarely, only as fast as my companion could go – never more than 2 miles at a time for the majority of my mission. I did get to run on a track we near where we lived once a week for 5-6 miles in my last two months before I came home. Hardly Olympic training. I gained 20 lbs and knew I’d have an uphill battle when I got back. Eyestone was the coach when I returned and I tried to ramp up my mileage, only to experience the first of three femoral stress fractures. After red-shirting, my sophomore year was a disappointment – qualifying for the regional final, but not making it to nationals. I did make it to NCAA finals my Junior year, but only through the regional system – still having not surpassed my freshman time. Entering my senior year in 2005, I still had not run any faster than I had in 1999.

        How many collegiate athletes make no improvement in a 5+ year timeframe? Fortunately, for my senior year, I finally strung enough months of staying healthy to put together a decent campaign where I was able to run 3:38 and take 2nd in the 1500 final to Manzano.

        Looking back, if my end goal was to “maximize my advantage” over the competition, going on a mission was not the ticket.

        My senior year we had a lot of talent on the team in terms of XC pedigree (this is before NXN). We had 3 guys on our team that were Footlocker finalists, 1 California Division I state champ and two other guys that were 10th and 12th at Footlocker regionals that just missed the cut. (I was 10th at regionals and back then they only took 8. It’s top 10 now – still sad about that 😊) We finished 5th at nationals that year, but I would think a crew like that, if we’d kept things rolling from high school, would have done better.

        As it turned out, it also put me on a collision course to compete with Olympic medalists Nick Willis (indoor mile champ) and Leonel Manzano (outdoor 1500) in that senior year. On paper, graduating in 2002 or 2003 could definitely have been a different story – no way to speculate races that were never run, but definitely a less stacked field. Again – not serving a mission could have been a more direct path to achieve my goals.

        Every person that decides to serve a mission will have a different story and have different reasons for going or not going. I made my decision, and strongly feel that it was never in an attempt to gain any advantage over anyone in the NCAA. For me, there was no guarantee that things would come back after two years off, and to be honest, I was afraid they wouldn’t. Many of my teammates were in the same boat. I saw guys come back and never run faster. I saw guys that came back and picked it back up, but they were the type of guys that had tons of high school success and would have succeeded regardless. Never at any time did the coaches or my teammates say “sweet – we’ll just go out for two years and come back older and stronger!” It was more the opposite. A fear of the unknown. A leap of faith. Not knowing if we stepped off the track, if we’d ever get back on.

        I returned to Portugal (where I served) this past fall for the 1st time in 17 years with my wife. I thought about how my life would have been different if I’d decided to not serve a mission. Maybe I’d have a USA uniform in my closet and other boxes checked off in my dream list for running. Maybe not. Looking back, in the grand scheme of things, running was a temporary passion. I loved every minute of it (minus the elliptical workouts with a stress-fracture). I drove 10 hours round-trip to go watch the great race up in Madison. I still run for fun and jump in an occasional 5k/triathlon just cause I love competing, but it doesn’t define me. It doesn’t pay my bills. My point is that many who serve missions are not doing so for athletic advantage, but for personal reasons – independent of athletics.

        I have no regrets with my decision, like I said I wouldn’t change it – but please don’t put a blanket statement out there that it is either a personal advantage or that it’s an intentional ploy to improve a national ranking. It certainly wasn’t for me.

        Every athlete has their story. This is mine...
    • Lickety Split
      registered
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "Real American" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 4:17PM - in reply to byumiler
      • Lickety Split
        registered
      • Nice try w/your “plea to emotion,” but can’t you BYU guys just admit to Lickety that a 26 year-old competing against an 18 year-old is ridiculous! All Lickety is doing in this thread is establishing a different weight class for Americans that grow-up in our rational system. A “pat on the back”!

        BYU: Lickety demands a NCAA investigation …. separate rosters, scholarships given, scholarships taken away, 2 x Year Missions w/a Red-shirt, Mormon-only rosters, etc. ’

        Why age matters? Look at the competition …. it forces hard-hard-charging 18-22 year-old Americans to do too much w/their bodies to win & stay competitive. LetRun posters can recall thousands of talented Americans that tried to make it happen against older ANZACers & the Rift Valley Express in the NCAAs to only run themselves into the ground. The one’s that survived now get a shot at WCAPers (fake soldiers) of extreme genetic & post-collegiate financial advantage.

        - No foreigner should ever be considered as an All-American & points should be reduced from them during team competition for those that score. This is the NCAAs not the World University Games.
    • Fireball
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "Real American" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 4:41PM - in reply to Lickety Split
      • Fireball
      • Trying to imagine what it must be like to be Lickety, waking up in his mom's basement every day; fearful knowing he may encounter someone/things different from himself or *GASP* someone/something that might actually make him have to work for something!
    • NERunner053
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "Real American" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 4:43PM - in reply to Lickety Split
      • NERunner053
      • Lickety Split wrote:

        Nice try w/your “plea to emotion,” but can’t you BYU guys just admit to Lickety that a 26 year-old competing against an 18 year-old is ridiculous! All Lickety is doing in this thread is establishing a different weight class for Americans that grow-up in our rational system. A “pat on the back”!

        BYU: Lickety demands a NCAA investigation …. separate rosters, scholarships given, scholarships taken away, 2 x Year Missions w/a Red-shirt, Mormon-only rosters, etc. ’

        Why age matters? Look at the competition …. it forces hard-hard-charging 18-22 year-old Americans to do too much w/their bodies to win & stay competitive. LetRun posters can recall thousands of talented Americans that tried to make it happen against older ANZACers & the Rift Valley Express in the NCAAs to only run themselves into the ground. The one’s that survived now get a shot at WCAPers (fake soldiers) of extreme genetic & post-collegiate financial advantage.

        - No foreigner should ever be considered as an All-American & points should be reduced from them during team competition for those that score. This is the NCAAs not the World University Games.

        Full stop
    • nofacetimber
      registered
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "Real American" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 4:51PM - in reply to byumiler
      • nofacetimber
        registered
      • byumiler wrote:
        Every person that decides to serve a mission will have a different story and have different reasons for going or not going. I made my decision, and strongly feel that it was never in an attempt to gain any advantage over anyone in the NCAA. For me, there was no guarantee that things would come back after two years off, and to be honest, I was afraid they wouldn’t. Many of my teammates were in the same boat. I saw guys come back and never run faster. I saw guys that came back and picked it back up, but they were the type of guys that had tons of high school success and would have succeeded regardless. Never at any time did the coaches or my teammates say “sweet – we’ll just go out for two years and come back older and stronger!” It was more the opposite. A fear of the unknown. A leap of faith. Not knowing if we stepped off the track, if we’d ever get back on.

        Truth

        Thanks for the insight
    • brickb
      registered
      • RE: 2018 NCAA "American Only" Cross Country Results (Men) 11/20/2018 5:06PM - in reply to Lickety Split
      • brickb
        registered
      • To say taking two years off from running/training (BYU) gives anyone an advantage is hilarious. Give any team the option to either run athletes 4 years straight or take a 2 yr sabbatical (but no training is allowed), what do you think they opt for?