How hard is it to get a HS girl to run a 2:30 800?

Take a look at last year's results from meets in your area.

If you can recruit some soccer girls with a good work ethic you should have no problem.

400 would have to be around 65. Mile at least 6/5k at least 21.

Could be hard, could be easy. It depends who you’re training.

What are their PRs? What shape are they in? I’m going to assume youre taking some girls on the soccer team/some other sport already in fairly decent shape. If they’re running around the 2:50-3:00 mark I would say they should be good for 2:30 by spring providing they train. I would say maybe have them do 8-12 x 200m in 42 until the pace feels comfortable. Move to 40 secs, then 38. Preferably with about 35-50 seconds rest.. Getting some running at 400m pace every now and then wouldn't hurt 3-4 x 250-300m @ close to all out (so around 45 seconds for 250m and 55 seconds for 300m).

RayD wrote:

Could be hard, could be easy. It depends who you’re training.

What are their PRs? What shape are they in? I’m going to assume youre taking some girls on the soccer team/some other sport already in fairly decent shape. If they’re running around the 2:50-3:00 mark I would say they should be good for 2:30 by spring providing they train. I would say maybe have them do 8-12 x 200m in 42 until the pace feels comfortable. Move to 40 secs, then 38. Preferably with about 35-50 seconds rest.. Getting some running at 400m pace every now and then wouldn't hurt 3-4 x 250-300m @ close to all out (so around 45 seconds for 250m and 55 seconds for 300m).

Great advice

I don't think the 300s are ideal speed training. why move up in distance and up in pace relative to the 200 workout? It would make more sense to either slow down the pace and run 800 meter reps for endurance, or speed up the pace and run less reps, 5 reps of 200m in 37.5 is over distance at exactly race pace. The rests if work capacity is not great could be walked instead of jogged, 2 minutes at least.

Im male but I ran 2:20 the first time I ever ran 800, faster than most people running higher mileage for years, by running wind sprints and running distance two seasons with a low weekly mileage. The improvement in the 800 as I upped my mileage was minor, a few seconds. However if I were to train now to run a faster 800, I would run higher mileage, now that I have adapted to that. It is best to build up gradually, to get the easy beginner speed gains while you can. Once someone is fit enough to cover a full 300 meters in a sprint and recover, a great workout sure.

To run 2:30, you need to be 70 for 400, don't need 65, just some balls.

Once I start telling them about the Devil’s Triangle and grabbing at them they generally get away from me at a sub 2:30 pace.

With strong 800m training and a knowledge of "how to run the race", a girl with 66-67 400m ability and 6:00-6:15 mile ability can go 2:30.

GBohannon wrote:

With strong 800m training and a knowledge of "how to run the race", a girl with 66-67 400m ability and 6:00-6:15 mile ability can go 2:30.

Using 66 and 6:15 as a starting point, I would say for every second slower a girl is in the 400, she would need to be about 7-8 seconds faster in the mile... if that makes sense. So, a girl with 70 second 400 speed could probably do it assuming she could run a mile in the 5:40s.

This is not a hard and fast rule, but has been pretty accurate in my experience.

GBohannon wrote:

GBohannon wrote:

With strong 800m training and a knowledge of "how to run the race", a girl with 66-67 400m ability and 6:00-6:15 mile ability can go 2:30.

Using 66 and 6:15 as a starting point, I would say for every second slower a girl is in the 400, she would need to be about 7-8 seconds faster in the mile... if that makes sense. So, a girl with 70 second 400 speed could probably do it assuming she could run a mile in the 5:40s.

This is not a hard and fast rule, but has been pretty accurate in my experience.

^yes

I don't think a 6:15 girl is running 2:30 unless she only ran it once at the beginning of the season. But I agree with your assertion.

Very easy if they are in 2:15 shape. They could easily run two if you wanted.

It's simple. You can only "build a 2:30 800 girl" if you're fortunate enough to find a girl with the genetic ability to do that, and who also wants to run. If you don't, you won't "get any others down to 2:30ish" no matter what coaching legerdemain you attempt to pull off. Talent will out, and training isn't nearly as complicated as some think it is. You'll never get a Trabant to run like a Maserati no matter what you do.

6:15 predicts around 2:45 fitness. You need a sub 6 girl at least.

My recommendation would be to not train them like how you would train a more experienced 800m runner. Most high school runners severely lack aerobic development. The 800m is around 50% aerobic and some people have recently suggested that it may lean a little bit more on the aerobic side than originally thought. I think doing a fair amount of strength training throughout the year will help a lot. Do not try to train the girl like a 400/800 runner. It doesn't work well at the HS level but is the current model (swiftly changing) at the elite level. You aren't asking her to be elite so train her more like a miler who steps down into the 800m. 2:30 isn't fast and all the speed/race pace in the world won't matter if the runner is toast with 400m to go.

1styearHStrackCoach wrote:

Trying to tell if we will have a shot to have a decent 4x8. Would like to go 9:40-50 but need to find 2 other girls that I can bring down to 2:30. How hard would that be. How fast of a XC time vs. 400 time would it take to build a 2:30 800 girl? Curious on what people think. I know we will have two girls in the 2:20-2:25 range but unsure if I can get any others down to 2:30ish.

XC performances are irrelevant to 800m performances. Any race result past 1000m is irrelevant to 800m performances. Obviously, the teenage female will need to be a sub-70 400m runner to have a chance to break 2:30 for 800m.

Former Sub 14:00 wrote:

My recommendation would be to not train them like how you would train a more experienced 800m runner. Most high school runners severely lack aerobic development. The 800m is around 50% aerobic and some people have recently suggested that it may lean a little bit more on the aerobic side than originally thought. I think doing a fair amount of strength training throughout the year will help a lot. Do not try to train the girl like a 400/800 runner. It doesn't work well at the HS level but is the current model (swiftly changing) at the elite level. You aren't asking her to be elite so train her more like a miler who steps down into the 800m. 2:30 isn't fast and all the speed/race pace in the world won't matter if the runner is toast with 400m to go.

1+

That has been my experience as well coaching younger athletes. They usually have plenty of speed but the aerobic system is weak, on both the male and female side. I have been training most of them like milers and it has worked out great for both the 1500 and the 800m. The ones that told me they explicitly wanted to be trained like 800m runners did well for a couple of races but lacked the endurance foundation to last the entire season.

I spent 5-6 years coaching and had success in the relays at a small school. The biggest benefit was to recruit the other athletes in the school to come out; soccer players, basketball players, football etc.

For the girls, pure running times helps but getting a HS girl to believe she can run that fast is a whole new story. They will go out too hard or come through in 75 and wonder why they can't sniff 2:30. Buidling aerobic strength will help (from XC) but many distance runners need speed and overall strength to hold together for the 800.

The best workout we used was in the weight room: Tempo Squats (from Oly Gold Medalist Andrew Rock)

Basically, you load up a bar with no more than the body weight of the athlete, usually less (if you know one rep maxes,

Former Sub 14:00 wrote:

My recommendation would be to not train them like how you would train a more experienced 800m runner. Most high school runners severely lack aerobic development. The 800m is around 50% aerobic and some people have recently suggested that it may lean a little bit more on the aerobic side than originally thought. I think doing a fair amount of strength training throughout the year will help a lot. Do not try to train the girl like a 400/800 runner. It doesn't work well at the HS level but is the current model (swiftly changing) at the elite level. You aren't asking her to be elite so train her more like a miler who steps down into the 800m. 2:30 isn't fast and all the speed/race pace in the world won't matter if the runner is toast with 400m to go.

Good advice!

Finding girls with the speed required to run 2:30 is easy. I would start with the XC/milers who actually like running a shorter distance and I would not start true 800m training until the athlete can run 2:30. Add in 200/300/400 intervals for your sprinters and you pop out an 800. I would not say your task is easy, but if you are working with girls with a little talent and have done other sports, it should not be a problem. The more girls you can get on the team, the bbetter; I have had girls run 2:30 ish with almost no training.