Nick Symmonds ran his 3:34 1500m on pure 800m training

I ran my 800m PR off pure 1500 training, just goes to show that endurance is king

jamin wrote:

Listened to his old interview with LetsRun and was a little surprised to learn that fact. Goes to show that speed is king.

It's always bizarre to see a running-related post from jamin.

I agree it's pretty surprising. There are very few runners who could run 3:34 off just 800 training, but it makes sense that Symmonds is one of them. Not sure if Rudisha in his prime could have run 3:34...

Mo Farah ran his 3:28 1500m PR off of 5000m/10000m training.

Interesting that Peter Snell had an 800 PB 1.5 seconds slower, and a 1500 PB three seconds slower, off of much different training.

Peter Elliott had an almost identical 800 PB as Symmonds, but was 3:32. Not sure about his training.

YMMV wrote:

Interesting that Peter Snell had an 800 PB 1.5 seconds slower, and a 1500 PB three seconds slower, off of much different training.

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He did that on a grass track, so take off at least a second per lap. If Peter Snell and Herb Elliott ran on the Monaco track they could have easily ran sub 3:30 for 1500m. And, Snell could have easily ran a sub 1:42 on the Monaco track.

jamin wrote:

Goes to show that speed is king.

I think your conclusion is completely wrong. Symmonds was saying that he did not alter his training in order to run 3:34, but his version of 800m training was notoriously more like a 1500m runner in the first place. He is on record and has posted logs showing that a fair amount of his training consisted of things that we associate more with 1500 (or even 5000) runners - fartleks, tempo work, 1k's at 5k-10k pace, etc. He did his fair share of speed work, too, but he definitely approached the 800 more from the stamina side than the speed side. I look at all that info and conclude that having the stamina necessary to run 3:34 (through his version of 800m training) is what made him a great 800m runner.

jcaweiioj fd; wrote:

jamin wrote:

Goes to show that speed is king.

I think your conclusion is completely wrong. Symmonds was saying that he did not alter his training in order to run 3:34, but his version of 800m training was notoriously more like a 1500m runner in the first place. He is on record and has posted logs showing that a fair amount of his training consisted of things that we associate more with 1500 (or even 5000) runners - fartleks, tempo work, 1k's at 5k-10k pace, etc. He did his fair share of speed work, too, but he definitely approached the 800 more from the stamina side than the speed side. I look at all that info and conclude that having the stamina necessary to run 3:34 (through his version of 800m training) is what made him a great 800m runner.

+1. This is true and Jamin is mostly wrong yet again.

Most 1:42 guys with only 47+ speed should be able to run 3:34. He was running similar mileage to what Cram was running.

Sand Dunes wrote:

YMMV wrote:

Interesting that Peter Snell had an 800 PB 1.5 seconds slower, and a 1500 PB three seconds slower, off of much different training.

.

He did that on a grass track, so take off at least a second per lap. If Peter Snell and Herb Elliott ran on the Monaco track they could have easily ran sub 3:30 for 1500m. And, Snell could have easily ran a sub 1:42 on the Monaco track.

Symmonds is likeable enough, so I hold nothing going against him but that day he was way behind in 3:34. If you took an almost elite, running 3:39-3:41 and put them in a good race like that with Kiprop running 3:26-28 and others running sub 3:30, that person will be dragged through to 3:35/36. Rotich an 800m guy who was dropped from the gun this year was still dragged through to 3:36.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Sand Dunes wrote:

He did that on a grass track, so take off at least a second per lap. If Peter Snell and Herb Elliott ran on the Monaco track they could have easily ran sub 3:30 for 1500m. And, Snell could have easily ran a sub 1:42 on the Monaco track.

Symmonds is likeable enough, so I hold nothing going against him but that day he was way behind in 3:34. If you took an almost elite, running 3:39-3:41 and put them in a good race like that with Kiprop running 3:26-28 and others running sub 3:30, that person will be dragged through to 3:35/36. Rotich an 800m guy who was dropped from the gun this year was still dragged through to 3:36.

a little too liberal with the use of the word "easily" there.

YMMV wrote:

Interesting that Peter Snell had an 800 PB 1.5 seconds slower, and a 1500 PB three seconds slower, off of much different training.

Peter Elliott had an almost identical 800 PB as Symmonds, but was 3:32. Not sure about his training.

Peter Elliott? Did NZ do some unethical human hybridization or...well nvm I'm sure they did. Scumz

rare wrote:

jamin wrote:

Listened to his old interview with LetsRun and was a little surprised to learn that fact. Goes to show that speed is king.

It's always bizarre to see a running-related post from jamin.

I agree it's pretty surprising. There are very few runners who could run 3:34 off just 800 training, but it makes sense that Symmonds is one of them. Not sure if Rudisha in his prime could have run 3:34...

Rudisha believes he can run around 3.36

Sand Dunes wrote:

He did that on a grass track, so take off at least a second per lap.

Why? That’s a completely arbitrary conversion.

Symmonds was in better shape than Snell ever was. By a lot. And that’s not to say Snell couldn’t have done even better with modern training, but it’s laughable to compare him to Symmonds as-is.

Sand Dunes wrote:

If Peter Snell and Herb Elliott ran on the Monaco track they could have easily ran sub 3:30 for 1500m. And, Snell could have easily ran a sub 1:42 on the Monaco track.

No. Your claim has no evidence, and so I dismiss it without evidence.

Snell was nowhere near 1;42 / 3:30 capable.

Wolhuter was faster than Snell at 600/800/1000/1500 on half the training volume.

Would you say Wolhuter could run 1:42/3:30 in this era?

I doubt Snell could even advance to a world final in the 800 racing against the current competition.

And that would mean Symmonds was actually a better runner than Snell.

At least a second, it is generally accepted that cinder tracks convert to a second per lap on modern tracks. Also, Snell was way better shape compared to Symmonds.

[/quote]

Monaco due to how it is built and location to the sea makes one faster per half second per lap compared to synthetic tracks. Now that is 1.5 seconds faster compared to cinder tracks and probably over 2 seconds per lap compared to the grass track Snell ran on. If anything Snell was capable of a 1:40 800m on the Monaco track.

Fact checking the fact checker wrote:

Fact checking wrote:

Why? That’s a completely arbitrary conversion.

Symmonds was in better shape than Snell ever was. By a lot. And that’s not to say Snell couldn’t have done even better with modern training, but it’s laughable to compare him to Symmonds as-is.

At least a second, it is generally accepted that cinder tracks convert to a second per lap on modern tracks. Also, Snell was way better shape compared to Symmonds.

Fact checking wrote:

No. Your claim has no evidence, and so I dismiss it without evidence.

Monaco due to how it is built and location to the sea makes one faster per half second per lap compared to synthetic tracks. Now that is 1.5 seconds faster compared to cinder tracks and probably over 2 seconds per lap compared to the grass track Snell ran on. If anything Snell was capable of a 1:40 800m on the Monaco track.[/quote]

How does location to the sea effect times? Do you mean that it is at sea level?

Running up that hill wrote:

rare wrote:

It's always bizarre to see a running-related post from jamin.

I agree it's pretty surprising. There are very few runners who could run 3:34 off just 800 training, but it makes sense that Symmonds is one of them. Not sure if Rudisha in his prime could have run 3:34...

Rudisha believes he can run around 3.36

That would really bolster my "speed is king" theory, because Rudisha only ran 20mpw

jamin wrote:

Running up that hill wrote:

Rudisha believes he can run around 3.36

That would really bolster my "speed is king" theory, because Rudisha only ran 20mpw

Rudisha does upwards of 50 miles in base Dilbert:

jamin wrote:

Running up that hill wrote:

Rudisha believes he can run around 3.36

That would really bolster my "speed is king" theory, because Rudisha only ran 20mpw

More like 60-70 miles per week when he is in the full swing of training.