So... High Mileage doesn't hurt High Schoolers?

This is a quote from a research paper I found on Steve Magness's Twitter and the key part I've found is this section, which includes talk about Henrik Ingebrigsten from when he was considered a junior athlete.

HVLI = High Volume Low Intensity

[quote]

Irish runner Sonia O’Sullivan was the 1995 World

Champion in the 5000 m. In 1998, she won the long and

the shorter distance in the World Cross Country

Championships and became European champion over

5000 and 10,000 m. Between November 1994 and May

1995, O’Sullivan typically ran 160 km/week. The highest

volume reported for a single training week in this

period was 180 km. She typically ran two sessions per

day. During the competition period, the average weekly

training volume was reduced to 115–120 km/week.31

During the last three decades, international distance

running has been dominated by African runners. Billat

et al.27 studied the training program of Kenyan elite

runners during a training week in Europe in April

2002. In addition, the athletes’ training diaries over a

period of 8 weeks prior to this week were analyzed. The

sample (n ¼ 20) consisted of 7 women and 13 men. All

runners in the study had finished among the top 30 in

the Kenyan Cross Country Championships in 2002.

According to Billat et al.,27 these runners based their

training on either a ‘‘high volume and low intensity

model’’ (‘‘HVLI model’’) or a ‘‘low volume and high

intensity model’’ (‘‘LVHI model’’). Men (n ¼ 6) who

used the LVHI model ran 158 19 km/week and

women (n ¼ 6) who used this training model ran

127 +/- 8 km/week. Men (n ¼ 7) who followed a HVLI

model ran 174 17 km/week. These runners performed

10 to 16 running sessions per week during the reported

8–9 weeks.

The training volume reported for male HVLI-model

Kenyan male runners corresponds with the training

volume reported for the Norwegian female runner,

Susanne Wigene, who finished second in the 10,000 m

in the 2006 European Championships, running

30:32.22. In four different periods of the training year,

she ran an average of 160–180 km/week.24

According to Rabadan et al.,28 Spanish male middle

distance runners (n ¼ 40) at a national and international

level, during the period 2000–2008, ran 130–

140 km/week in the preparation period. During the

same period, male long distance runners (n ¼ 32) at

the same level, ran 160–180 km/week.

The average running volume for the 2012 European

1500 m champion Henrik Ingebrigtsen was 146 km/

week in November and December 2011, followed by

156 km/week during 10 weeks from 1 January to the

middle of March 2012, and 150 km/week from the

middle of March to the end of May.20

Training volume among young distance runners. A study of

four young Norwegian distance runners (age 17–19

years), who were second in the team competition in

the 2008 European Junior Cross Country

Championships (finishing 2nd, 10th, 16th, and 20th

place), ran in three different periods of the training

year an average of 132.5 (+/-25.9), 115.7 (+/-22.9), and

145 (+/-22.9) km/week.23 This is substantially more kilometers

per week than Esteve-Lanao et al.29 reported for

young Spanish runners over a training period of 6

months. These runners had an average running

volume of 70 km/week.

The primary distinction between the four Norwegian

juniors and the Spanish runners was the number of

kilometers run at a low intensity. In the study by

Esteve-Lanao et al.,29 it was found that the runners

who ran the most kilometers per week were those

who performed the best. This may be a contributing

factor to the fact that the Norwegians, despite being

younger than the Spaniards (17.8+/- 1 year vs. 23 +/- 2

years), performed better. The Norwegian runners

were closer to the world records over the distances

1500 and 5000 m than the Spanish runners.23 The two

juniors in the Norwegian study who ran the greatest

number of kilometer per week in 2008, three seasons

later (2011), became European champions for adolescents

(less than 23 years) over 5000 m and 10,000 m, respectively.

The third runner finished 18th in the European

Cross Country Championships for adolescents (

Last Try

This is a quote from a research paper I found on Steve Magness's Twitter and the key part I've found is this section, which includes talk about Henrik Ingebrigsten from when he was considered a junior athlete.

HVLI = High Volume Low Intensity

[quote]

Irish runner Sonia O’Sullivan was the 1995 World

Champion in the 5000 m. In 1998, she won the long and

the shorter distance in the World Cross Country

Championships and became European champion over

5000 and 10,000 m. Between November 1994 and May

1995, O’Sullivan typically ran 160 km/week. The highest

volume reported for a single training week in this

period was 180 km. She typically ran two sessions per

day. During the competition period, the average weekly

training volume was reduced to 115–120 km/week.31

During the last three decades, international distance

running has been dominated by African runners. Billat

et al.27 studied the training program of Kenyan elite

runners during a training week in Europe in April

2002. In addition, the athletes’ training diaries over a

period of 8 weeks prior to this week were analyzed. The

sample (n ¼ 20) consisted of 7 women and 13 men. All

runners in the study had finished among the top 30 in

the Kenyan Cross Country Championships in 2002.

According to Billat et al.,27 these runners based their

training on either a ‘‘high volume and low intensity

model’’ (‘‘HVLI model’’) or a ‘‘low volume and high

intensity model’’ (‘‘LVHI model’’). Men (n ¼ 6) who

used the LVHI model ran 158 19 km/week and

women (n ¼ 6) who used this training model ran

127 +/- 8 km/week. Men (n ¼ 7) who followed a HVLI

model ran 174 17 km/week. These runners performed

10 to 16 running sessions per week during the reported

8–9 weeks.

The training volume reported for male HVLI-model

Kenyan male runners corresponds with the training

volume reported for the Norwegian female runner,

Susanne Wigene, who finished second in the 10,000 m

in the 2006 European Championships, running

30:32.22. In four different periods of the training year,

she ran an average of 160–180 km/week.24

According to Rabadan et al.,28 Spanish male middle

distance runners (n ¼ 40) at a national and international

level, during the period 2000–2008, ran 130–

140 km/week in the preparation period. During the

same period, male long distance runners (n ¼ 32) at

the same level, ran 160–180 km/week.

The average running volume for the 2012 European

1500 m champion Henrik Ingebrigtsen was 146 km/

week in November and December 2011, followed by

156 km/week during 10 weeks from 1 January to the

middle of March 2012, and 150 km/week from the

middle of March to the end of May.20

Training volume among young distance runners. A study of

four young Norwegian distance runners (age 17–19

years), who were second in the team competition in

the 2008 European Junior Cross Country

Championships (finishing 2nd, 10th, 16th, and 20th

place), ran in three different periods of the training

year an average of 132.5 (+/-25.9), 115.7 (+/-22.9), and

145 (+/-22.9) km/week.23 This is substantially more kilometers

per week than Esteve-Lanao et al.29 reported for

young Spanish runners over a training period of 6

months. These runners had an average running

volume of 70 km/week.

The primary distinction between the four Norwegian

juniors and the Spanish runners was the number of

kilometers run at a low intensity. In the study by

Esteve-Lanao et al.,29 it was found that the runners

who ran the most kilometers per week were those

who performed the best. This may be a contributing

factor to the fact that the Norwegians, despite being

younger than the Spaniards (17.8+/- 1 year vs. 23 +/- 2

years), performed better. The Norwegian runners

were closer to the world records over the distances

1500 and 5000 m than the Spanish runners.23 The two

juniors in the Norwegian study who ran the greatest

number of kilometer per week in 2008, three seasons

later (2011), became European champions for adolescents

(less than 23 years) over 5000 m and 10,000 m, respectively.

The third runner finished 18th in the European

Cross Country Championships for adolescents (less than 23 years)

over 5000 m and 10,000 m, respectively.

The third runner finished 18th in the European

Cross Country Championships for adolescents (

Well, the post won't work for some reason even without the symbol, however the conclusion of this segment was this:

in 2012, a championship in which the fourth

runner, the European 1500 m track champion of

2012—Henrik Ingebrigtsen—won. This suggests that

a relatively large training volume during adolescence

has had a positive effect on their development as distance

runners.

If you want people to spend any time reading this maybe consider spending a fraction of that time to format it. ?

It is worth saying over and over again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlWZFxCQ0uk&feature=youtu.be&t=94

Or just provide the link to the article instead. Here's the abstract:

The article appears to be talking about HS senior/college freshman-age athletes (18-19) running up to 70 mpw, which isn't really young, and isn't super-high mileage at that age. For elite athletes in their prime years, it talks about milers running 75-100 mpw, and 5K/10K specialists running 93-124 mpw. So it isn't exactly upending what lots of people at that level are already doing.

Awet Beraki was already running marathons in 2:24 when he was in high school. His coaches didn't like that, but he did so anyways.

http://www.ciphermagazine.com/articles/the-long-run

Of course it doesn't. Unless it is just way too stressful and run too hard etc etc. Arthur Lydiard made a career and revolutionized the sport teaching this all around the world. Certainly there's a few talented athletes who get away with lower miles, but if you really want to improve its all about getting your volume to acceptable levels and sticking with it for years.

thanks for the article

all this stuff about low mileage is convenient folklore from coaches who are endowed into their jobs and do not ever have to produce results

they all complain about the lack of talent in their district

the few who are doing it right, are immediately suspected of bedding the unholy

those who are run longer are ridiculed by the experienced community that has itself never accomplished anything

High mileage only hurts the weak ones

The key is to get the runners to that kind of mileage over time. If you get a 14 year old who has done no running (or XC skiing) and try to get him/her to 100 mpw by his/her senior year you will get some who will succeed and many, many more that are "broken" physically and mentally. This was basically the old Soviet model (and still prevalent in China): take hundreds of kids and put them through rigorous training (and maybe doping) because you really only need 1 or 2 to succeed. The Chinese are notorious for the workloads placed on gymnasts. The ones that are injured too often are then sent to the diving well to become divers. If that does not pan out, they are let go.

The other part is the assumption that everyone responds the same to volume. That is a shaky assumption to make.

I love to see US athletes winning medals and majors, but I would rather see 100% of high school track and XC runners still active 20 years after high school.

There is absolutely no proof that you would get many more that are broken mentally and physically. In fact, the best masters runners I know were running high mileage in high school.

the us gymnasts who stood up to the chinese put in an equal if not greater amount of work but were arguably under more sexual scrutiny as was a french gymnast who came out with her story recently.

sorry, if that goes in the face of socially acceptable fiction.

I'm not going to dig around Pubmed to see if something this arcane has been properly documented, but my huge brain tells me that a lot of the kids that did high mileage and got injured subsequently stopped running and aren't representative of the "best master runners."

Selection bias is a b!@tch

One thing us runners forget is that we actually don't spend much time practicing our craft. Other high school sports that are much harder on the body spend much more time practicing. Look at how much time the average wrestler or football player spends each week in practice and compare that to runners. Running 100 miles per week is not that much time per week. That is about 12 hours per week of running per week. Compare that to the two a days and lifting sessions football players do. And ask yourself is 100 miles per week for high school kids that demanding?

Ezekiel bread wrote:

One thing us runners forget is that we actually don't spend much time practicing our craft. Other high school sports that are much harder on the body spend much more time practicing. Look at how much time the average wrestler or football player spends each week in practice and compare that to runners. Running 100 miles per week is not that much time per week. That is about 12 hours per week of running per week. Compare that to the two a days and lifting sessions football players do. And ask yourself is 100 miles per week for high school kids that demanding?

Comparing 90 minutes of football practice to 90 minutes of running is not a fair comparison. Football practice has a TON of standing around, taking a knee, walking through plays, practicing certain skills....

A 90 minute run will beat your body up pretty good, though.

CoachB wrote:

Ezekiel bread wrote:

One thing us runners forget is that we actually don't spend much time practicing our craft. Other high school sports that are much harder on the body spend much more time practicing. Look at how much time the average wrestler or football player spends each week in practice and compare that to runners. Running 100 miles per week is not that much time per week. That is about 12 hours per week of running per week. Compare that to the two a days and lifting sessions football players do. And ask yourself is 100 miles per week for high school kids that demanding?

Comparing 90 minutes of football practice to 90 minutes of running is not a fair comparison. Football practice has a TON of standing around, taking a knee, walking through plays, practicing certain skills....

A 90 minute run will beat your body up pretty good, though.

Try a 90 minute wrestling practice.

Rubbish a lot of the top masters started running later in life as for most people high mileage for decades will eventually catch up with you. Same goes for workouts as well. Both will most likely catch up with you eventually.

I can say from experience, and from witnessing the collapse of an entire high school team over the course of 3 years, that if done inncorrectly, high mileage is the worst possible thing for a high school runner to do.