CIM Taper

No offense, but you should have already had a plan 12+ weeks ago that had built to this point with key workouts. What has your focus been so far? Training log? What type of training have you been focusing on and what type do you respond well to?

Regardless, there isn't a ton you do in the last 3 weeks that will make a huge impact, as long as you keep doing what you've been doing with reduced overall volume and reduced volume of workouts (but keep the intensity). It's kind of an art and requires some individual experimentation. If you are following a training plan or training methodology in general, they each have their own theories on tapering and sharpening. I do well with keeping some faster paced tempos and cruise intervals, along with some 200m repeats the week of (the latter impact probably all mental). But I have all of that planned out 16 weeks in advance. If you've never tapered before, then I recommend either continuing with whatever plan you've been following or (if you're not following a plan) keep doing what you've been doing well less overall volume and workout volume. Maybe 55 mi, 40 mi, 30 mi the last three weeks. This is a semi arbitrary suggestion.

No worries.

I ran a 1:20:20 half 3 weeks ago.

some other key workouts were 18 miles at 7:00/6:55ish

tomorrow I was planning to do 20 miles with the last 12 at 6:25/30

I do one speed workout per week of 5k/10k pace work. 1 day off a week.

Follow my own training plan but influenced by my college coaches.

Any specific ideas of midweek speed work? Should I do anymore paced long runs or just easy from here on out?

ran all of my marathon PRs using this taper. but you have to have confidence in your training.

http://www.kemibe.com/distancecoach/labreports/marathontaper.shtml

Figuring out the optimal taper... is an art. there isn't one specific taper that is perfect. As a jazz guitarist once told me- there are no wrong notes, only wrong ideas.

And- it really depends on how deep your fatigue hole is, how you are feeling. Generally, your last 20+ miler is 3 weeks out, and you cut back your mileage 20-30%/week. I like a 16 miler 2 weeks out, and still getting in quality fatiguing workouts up to 10 days out.

That Pfitz plan above doesn't really match the one in his "Advanced Marathoning" book- which is what I use as a guide. There is more intensity in the book than is shown above.

I start really dialing in marathon pace miles into a bunch of my runs, sometimes just 2-4 miles of it towards the end of a run. And more in the long runs. and still toss in some speed work and tempo. More Speed/tempo in your midweek runs, then less in your long run. Or- if your mid-week speed is minimal, then definitely toss in quite a few MP miles in your weekend long runs, including that last 12ish miler 1 week out.

2 or 3 days out from race day- you should still feel a little fatigued. Your shakeout run the day prior... your legs should just start feeling ready. On race morning- they'll surprise you.

GivingItMyAll wrote:

Figuring out the optimal taper... is an art. there isn't one specific taper that is perfect. As a jazz guitarist once told me- there are no wrong notes, only wrong ideas.

well stated....

i finally figured out that i was slower at recovery than my running buddies. i just didn't want to admit it. at the time, this plan was printed in RT and i figured i'd give it a shot and was really surprised at the results.

another key to tapering is having the confidence that the taper *is* the right one.

CIM Taper wrote:

No worries.

I ran a 1:20:20 half 3 weeks ago.

some other key workouts were 18 miles at 7:00/6:55ish

tomorrow I was planning to do 20 miles with the last 12 at 6:25/30

I do one speed workout per week of 5k/10k pace work. 1 day off a week.

Follow my own training plan but influenced by my college coaches.

Any specific ideas of midweek speed work? Should I do anymore paced long runs or just easy from here on out?

I think you're going to crush your goal, conditions permitting. I think just keep doing what you've been doing on speedwork, with fewer reps. Basically you want to go in without undertraining (so... Don't stop running) or overtraining (so... Don't run more or continue with super hard efforts). Good luck and I would love to see a status update after the race!

Thanks so much for the input!

As far as paced long runs go, I would keep them, but drop the volume each week. Your workout for tomorrow is good. Then try 16 w/10 at pace and 12 w/4 at pace for your last two weekends. Drop the overall volume enough that you feel good going into those.

For midweek at this stage, I like doing MP on the track with every 4th lap at HM/10k pace. Stop before it becomes a struggle. Then full recovery (jog a mile or two), then strides or 200s if you feel like it.

There's also the MP farlek. 3 minutes at MP, 1 minute steady. Very good for getting MP muscle memory.

Friday November 9

AM. 6miles moderate then3x2mi at MP w 0.5mi recov at 80% MP

PM 6miles moderate then 6x1mi at MP w 0.5mi recov at 80%MP

Nov 10 off

11/11 easy 4.5 w strides

11/12 12mi 80-90% MP moderate run progressive

11/13 8mi easy

11/14 10mi moderate

11/15 6mi easy

11/16 23mi w 8x2mi at MP w 0.5mi at 80%MP recov

11/17 off

11/18 easy 4.5 w strides

11/19 easy 5

11/20 19mi- 13mi moderate, 3MP, 6x400 at ~8k pace w 1min recov

11/21 6mi easy

11/22 6mi easy

11/23 8mi- 6mi moderate then 2 at MP

11/24 off

11/25 easy 4.5 w strides

11/26 12 miles moderate

11/27 5 easy

11/28 4mi w 2 at MP

11/29 4mi easy

11/30 off

12/1 3.5mi w strides

Easy runs no slower then 80% MP

Moderate runs 80-90%MP

MP Marathon Pace

For 3 week tapers, there are two approaches:

1) 20% drop per week. This is what Pfitz has in his plans. So you'll run 80% of peak 2 weeks out, 60% of peak 1 week out, and 40% the 6 days before your race.

2) A little sharper of a drop. You would run something like 85-90% of peak 2 weeks out, then 70% 1 week out, and then only 30-40% the week of.

I prefer option 2. I'll do 90% of peak, then 70%, then only 35% in the 6 days prior. So it's a much more exponential drop. I think bigger drops are needed for higher mileage runners. For example, if you're running 100 mpw, it makes a lot of sense since you're still running 60 in the week prior to the race. But I run close to your mileage and like the slower drop in mileage.

I've heard/read about some runners take a recovery sort of week one-two wks out then the week of the marathon start ramping up the easy miles again (not to peak but maybe about 25-30% of it). I'm training for my first and I am a week out. It seems like a big experiment both in the buildup and getting the taper right. I just am trying to keep in my head that the point is to balance giving my body the chance to absorb all the training I've committed to but not become stale. When coaching yourself it's prob a lot more trial and error! I wish you the best of luck OP!

Truth is you don’t need much of a taper.

Avoid the cookie cutter advice and think about what you need to feel ready.

Let yourself run, test yourself keeping something in reserve

If I saw your logbook the answer would be obvious.

So look at the work you’ve done and find the next step

It’s as much about getting your head and spirit ready as anything

I think this guy (and one or two others) has it right. The %s mean totally different things to a runner at 100-120 mpw than to a relatively light 65 mpw. You probably, but maybe not, need less of a taper than the high mileage types. Without any more information, I would just do a 10-day taper based on your mileage and history. But, again, that may not be right for you. A big question is: what was your taper like last time? Did you get to the line feeling fresh and run well? No?

dsrunner wrote:

Truth is you don’t need much of a taper.

Avoid the cookie cutter advice and think about what you need to feel ready.

Let yourself run, test yourself keeping something in reserve

If I saw your logbook the answer would be obvious.

So look at the work you’ve done and find the next step

It’s as much about getting your head and spirit ready as anything