Ritz on why Americans aren't going sub 2:10 and on Des Linden's comments about him joining Hansons team

I agree with Ritz. With US men they don't seem to do the top end speed stuff like Kipchoge does i.e. 400m reps a mile pace after doing mile reps. Just out of curiosity how many sub 28 minute active 10000m runners does the U.S. has compared to Japan?

LetsRun.com wrote:

Ritz talks about Des Linden’s comments on him

Ritz joined the Hansons-Brooks team over a year ago, and this spring former team member Des Linden told LetsRun.com she wasn’t supportive of Ritz joining the team because of the anti-doping investigation on Ritz’s former team the Nike Oregon Project.

We asked Ritz what he thought of Des’ comments and whether they bothered him. “Not much bothers me. I’m the kind of person stuff rolls off my back. I don’t hold any grudges. I really wish Des the best. I think she’s great. Everyone has an opinion and that’s fine. I think most people who know me know I’m a good person….I’ll be cheering for her tomorrow,” he said.

This is why Ritz is a quality person and Des is a self centered little biotch. Des will go down in history as a nasty woman who won Boston on a freak year with the slowest winning time in 40 years.

If Des has specific info she should spill it, else shut up. Remember, in America we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

As for why American's aren't going sub 210, I've said it many times before: NCAA system and Olympic focus, which means our top guys wait until the marathon is an afterthought.

Rupp is sort of an oddball here, who did wait a long time but has seriously hit the ball out of the park. In his case however, I think there was always a long term goal of doing the marathon.

Ritz himself and even better example, Ryan Hall, did go to marathon early and coincidentally or not, are one of maybe three "American Born" runners who have broken 210 in the 21st Century (I admit my early 2000s American marathon knowledge is limited).

The issue with NCAA is their focus is still on two dying sports, XC and Track, and if an athlete wants a scholarship (typically we would say our best runners), then that's what they have to go for. And the only thing you can "do with that" after college is try for Olympics.

Japan on the other hand has their eikidens where the college guys are trying to blaze a 20km or 25km segment on the road. That's what their bought in to do. If NCAA had this concept we'd have a bunch of sub 210 guys I think.

I agree with you that top US runners wait too long to race marathons, Shorter was still in college when he tried his first one and was running them seriously a couple years after graduation. Your points about Ritz and Hall are good. I'd add that I think it's a mistake to become "only" a marathoner once you move to the distance. Guys like Shorter and Kenny Moore kept racing on the track and I think that kept their speed edge in marathons.

I do not agree with you that someone like Linden should either give specific information or say nothing. Innocent until proven guilty is a concept that only applies to criminal convictions. You could not possibly apply it to all aspects of life. If a set of parents find money missing from their house the day after they'd hired a baby sitter they have no proof that the baby sitter took it. But it's a perfectly reasonable assumption and no reasonable person would criticize then for not hiring that baby sitter again or from telling their friends who also hire baby sitters about their experience.

Many of us have questions about what goes on at NOP and mo one outside the program really knows. I have the right to say that I won't buy Nike products because I suspect Nike supports cheating and if Linden says she'd prefer not to be in a team with someone from NOP she has that right.

Class can not be taught wrote:

LetsRun.com wrote:

Ritz talks about Des Linden’s comments on him

...

We asked Ritz what he thought of Des’ comments and whether they bothered him. “Not much bothers me. I’m the kind of person stuff rolls off my back. I don’t hold any grudges. I really wish Des the best. I think she’s great. Everyone has an opinion and that’s fine. I think most people who know me know I’m a good person….I’ll be cheering for her tomorrow,” he said.

This is why Ritz is a quality person and Des is a self centered little biotch. Des will go down in history as a nasty woman who won Boston on a freak year with the slowest winning time in 40 years.

Anyone who follows the sport knows what Salazar and the NOP have been accused of. Even what Salazar has admitted to goes farther into the gray area than many in the sport of comfortable with. Linden just said/wrote what many were thinking.

About winning times, the prizes are the same in slow conditions as they are in fast conditions. It's interesting to note that Linden's two best Boston finishes came in the fastest (2nd in 2011) and the slowest (1st in 2018) years. She will go down in history for her ability to capitalize on extreme conditions.

Oh Please wrote:

If Des has specific info she should spill it, else shut up. Remember, in America we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

.

Innocent until proven guilty applies to a court of law. If I ever sat on a jury, then I would have that mindset.

However, I can look at a situation and see "guilt". For one thing my opinion really does not matter.

For instance I believe to this day that OJ killed two people although a jury disagreed. I think there is sufficient "stink" on NOP to raise questions.

Luv2Run wrote:

Oh Please wrote:

If Des has specific info she should spill it, else shut up. Remember, in America we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

.

Innocent until proven guilty applies to a court of law. If I ever sat on a jury, then I would have that mindset.

However, I can look at a situation and see "guilt". For one thing my opinion really does not matter.

For instance I believe to this day that OJ killed two people although a jury disagreed. I think there is sufficient "stink" on NOP to raise questions.

Salazar even openly admits to enough grayzone stuff to make a clean athlete justifiably uncomfortable

, testing androgel on his son for instance.

Isn't a sub 2:10 marathon sub-elite? I mean, who cares?

Maybe spending to much time on worrying about what athletes are not doing vs the US’s gap in coaching to world class times and competing at world class levels.

US Men’s marathoners start to late to run marathons.

Hearing Ward talk today about being so proud of pulling the Americans through @ 2:12 , content at being average.

We don’t have the mind set or coaching plain and simple.

I don't know. If you look at a list of fastest U.S. men's marathoners, there are an awful lot of times from the 1970's and 1980's -- when there wasn't a lot of money in the sport. I think it's just a different mindset. Love him or hate him, Rupp is the only one who goes in thinking he can run with the best.

The early miles of today's race sort of highlighted the male body type that is more conducive to 2:05 type of performances. The Americans (Fauble, Smith, Ward, Derrick) looked like giants.

Desisa: 121lbs

Kam: 128lbs

Tola: 130lbs at 5'11

Kipchoge 123lbs at 5'6

Tergat 137lbs at 6'0

Osaka 117lbs at 5'7

Ward 135lbs at 5'9

Derrick 161lbs at 6'2

Rupp 134lbs at 5'11

Ritz 121lbs at 5'8

Rupp and Ritz more closely resemble the build of the fastest marathoners.

I remember standing next to Khannouchi near the start of a race. At 5'9 and 135, I was a giant compared to him.

^^^^hasn't gotten laid in a LONG time^^^^^^

your post is a sign of pure class.

I tend to wonder if part of Ritz's plan with Hansons is to one day take the coaching reins. He seems to have as good of a pedigree for coaching as any of his contemporaries.

3hr-marathoner wrote:

Class can not be taught wrote:

This is why Ritz is a quality person and Des is a self centered little biotch. Des will go down in history as a nasty woman who won Boston on a freak year with the slowest winning time in 40 years.

Anyone who follows the sport knows what Salazar and the NOP have been accused of. Even what Salazar has admitted to goes farther into the gray area than many in the sport of comfortable with. Linden just said/wrote what many were thinking.

About winning times, the prizes are the same in slow conditions as they are in fast conditions. It's interesting to note that Linden's two best Boston finishes came in the fastest (2nd in 2011) and the slowest (1st in 2018) years. She will go down in history for her ability to capitalize on extreme conditions.

Her best finish in 2011 was due to the lack of stud American females as opposed to today with Molly, Jordan, Amy, etc...who'd be running a lot better when they are healthy. Goucher was overrated and still 2 minutes that day in 2011.

Yes, that's why she was 2nd.

left something out wrote:

Her best finish in 2011 was due to the lack of stud American females as opposed to today with Molly, Jordan, Amy, etc...who'd be running a lot better when they are healthy. Goucher was overrated and still 2 minutes that day in 2011.

Yes, that's why she was 2nd.

Your post is a mess, dude. Yes, the US is deeper now but, no, that isn't why Linden was 2nd. She beat some very good international marathoners including, among others, Dire Tune who had won the race in '08 and Sharon Cherop who won the race the following year. I'm not sure what you are getting at about Goucher. Like her or hate her, she was one of the US's best marathoners at the time, she was healthy, and on that day Linden beat her by over 2 minutes which is a ton at that level.

1955 wrote:

I don't know. If you look at a list of fastest U.S. men's marathoners, there are an awful lot of times from the 1970's and 1980's -- when there wasn't a lot of money in the sport. I think it's just a different mindset. Love him or hate him, Rupp is the only one who goes in thinking he can run with the best.

This is a very good point. I can't pretend to know about much about that era as I do present time, but the running boom came with big time mileage too. I guess that part is all relative once you're above 100 mpw during a training block. Ryan Hall noted his biggest regret was not focusing more on the 5/10k speed once he made his jump to the marathon. Rupp was a few months shy of 30 before his debut, and Mo Farah (I don't believe he ran one) before the age of 35, so idk if running you're first marathon at 27-30 is the worst thing for an athlete either. It's raises an interesting question though as we're seeing more Americans struggling to crack the 2:10 barrier. If an athlete is running sub 28 or low 28s at 22-23 y/o, do they make the marathon jump by 25-26? Or does it all depend what sponsorship opportunities coincide with the marathon cycle?

***olympic cycle***

Desi became hated when she bashed ritz, for literally no reason at all. He joined Hanson’s after leaving NOP and whistleblowing on them. He knew it was wrong and reported it. All Desi is doing is distancing herself from a man who wanted clean sport. I do not like her at all.

3hr-marathoner wrote:

left something out wrote:

Her best finish in 2011 was due to the lack of stud American females as opposed to today with Molly, Jordan, Amy, etc...who'd be running a lot better when they are healthy. Goucher was overrated and still 2 minutes that day in 2011.

Yes, that's why she was 2nd.

Your post is a mess, dude. Yes, the US is deeper now but, no, that isn't why Linden was 2nd. She beat some very good international marathoners including, among others, Dire Tune who had won the race in '08 and Sharon Cherop who won the race the following year. I'm not sure what you are getting at about Goucher. Like her or hate her, she was one of the US's best marathoners at the time, she was healthy, and on that day Linden beat her by over 2 minutes which is a ton at that level.

Ha! I've read BOTH posts. I think "your" post, 3hr-marathoner, is the mess and your points are biased.

Goucher? She got a silver in 2007 WC because of a WEAK field. She PR'D the next year in the Olympic 10,000 and got 8th, what does that tell you? She was indeed overrated. Flanagan beat her by over 1/2 a minute! That medal was a gift of lucky timing.

Yes, you are a 3 hour marathoner. Stay on the sidelines, it suits you best.