Can someone explain the argument for gun control

I would go to Dr. John Lott's website, lots of relevant info that will shed some light on your comments. Lots of variables, the firearm is but one. Mostly the illegal firearm but not in all cases. I think the distinction should also be made that without the gang related violence in the rather populous urban areas here the stats would be much different.

nogunhere wrote:

I hope everyone that has contributed to this thread stays safe. If you live in the USA someone will be next......it is only a matter of time before the next time happens and nothing will be done. Same old sad story that will continue, continue and continue.....glad I am somewhere with reasonable gun laws.

You are not safe at school

in a bar

at a rally

at a concert

at your families house

in your own house

down the street

across the road

at the park

at your office

at church

at...........................be safe and wait till the next time, because there will continue to be a next time again and again and again and again.

Thoughts and Prayers that it isn't YOU!

>Can someone explain the argument for gun control

Yes, look what happens when you don't have any - America.

Check how many gun related deaths occur annually in Japan and you have your answer.

mylegshurt wrote:

3. Let's pretend all guns were made illegal. Do the people that don't obey the law suddenly start and turn in their guns? No

We don't have to pretend. Australia did it 20 years ago. There were strict penalties for those who did not turn in their guns and they were enforced to great effect.

it's guns. wrote:

If it isn't all the guns in the US behind the fact that you have more gun deaths than any other fist world country - why do you believe that the US has so many gun deaths? What do you say it is about the American people which is so different than any other country that makes them more prone to killing themselves and others with guns, if it isn't the guns? What is the cause of all the gun deaths in the US?

As someone earlier pointed out, in 60% of firearm related crimes, the guns were illegally obtained anyhow, so gun control would have little impact in my opinion as the guns are already out there and criminals would find ways to get them.

The reason why you can't compare a place like Norway to the US is because the US is a much more diverse society with multiple cultures with much different views on violence. While many of the mass shootings are perpetrated by caucasians, gun violence in general is much more prevalent amongst African Americans (an African American gun owner is 6 to 7 times more likely to shoot another person than a Caucasian gun owner). If you take the states with the highest percentage of African Americans in them, you will find that those states are also in the top 10 in terms of murder rate. Conversely, if you take the states with the lowest percentage of African Americans in them, you will find they fall into the states with the lowest murder rates, regardless of average per capita income level (New Hampshire, North Dakota, Maine, Idaho, Rhode Island, Minnesota, Nebraska, Vermont, Utah, Massachusettes, Oregon, Wyoming, Hawaii, Connecticut, New York and South Dakota all have murder rates below the European average of 3.0). Many of those states also have some of the least restrictive gun laws.

Case in point, take the cities of St Louis, MO and Lincoln. NE. Both are mid western cities in the Missouri river watershed with fairly similar average per capita income levels (Lincoln is slightly lower than St. Louis). Lincoln has one of the lowest murder rates in the country (0.4) and is comparable to Norway and the European countries you mention, whereas St Louis has the highest rate (59.8). The difference is Lincoln is 86% Caucasian and 3.8% African American, whereas St Louis is 43.9% Caucasian and 49.2% African American. I have no solution for how to transform a culture that I am not a member of.

Japan also has a higher suicide rate than the US in spite of their absence of guns. Certain things are cultural.

joedirt wrote:

(New Hampshire, North Dakota, Maine, Idaho, Rhode Island, Minnesota, Nebraska, Vermont, Utah, Massachusettes, Oregon, Wyoming, Hawaii, Connecticut, New York and South Dakota all have murder rates below the European average of 3.0). Many of those states also have some of the least restrictive gun laws.

BS.

The European murder rate is 3 only if you conveniently include Russia and Ukraine in the count. If you just look at the EU or Western Europe, it is about 1. The only states that get close to these numbers are New Hampshire (1.0) and North Dakota (1.3), which still have murder rates higher than most EU countries.

In Alaska, the murder rate is 8.4, one of the highest of the US. Not many African-American there. In Montana, the state with the lowest African-American population (0.67%), it is 3.9, almost 4 times the rate in the EU.

The murder rates in Alaska and Montana are heavily influenced by indigenous populations and alcoholism. The murder rate for African Americans is 17.51, Caucasians is 2.64 and Native Americans is about 4.0.

Las Vegas

joedirt wrote:

The murder rates in Alaska and Montana are heavily influenced by indigenous populations and alcoholism. The murder rate for African Americans is 17.51, Caucasians is 2.64 and Native Americans is about 4.0.

So, according to your argument, Caucasians in the US are 3-4 times more likely to commit a murder than caucasians in Western Europe. I wonder why.

By the way, while the differences in murder rate between Lincoln and St. Louis are striking, the two cities are not comparable. While the AVERAGE income is the same, the distribution of the income is very different. In Lincoln the income is evenly distributed (for american standards), while in St. Louis a few people make millions and the rest suck it up. As a result, the poverty rate in St. Louis is almost twice than that in Lincoln. You are also somewhat cherry-picking data; the murder rate for the "city of St.Louis", 300K people, is 59; but for Greater St. Louis (2.5M people) it is 11, more in line with the rest of the US big cities.

HAve fun with your gun wrote:

In Alaska, the murder rate is 8.4, one of the highest of the US. Not many African-American there. In Montana, the state with the lowest African-American population (0.67%), it is 3.9, almost 4 times the rate in the EU.

The murder rate in Alaska is comparable to nearby Canadian provinces (Yukon, NW Territories, etc.) with similarly high percentages of aboriginal inhabitants, predominantly male populations and low population densities.

waiting for a report on the great Italian stapler massacre of 2018. Anyone got a link?

I'm starting to think these guys are full of carp who say 'people will find a way to kill no matter what.'

But I'm sure they are right. I'll wait for the links. Maybe there was an envelope opener mass murder in Switzerland.

Yes, Australias gun deaths went way down after their government (with a little funding from George Soros) took their citizens guns. Their overall # of murders have NOT gone down over those last 20 years. Must be the guns.

Liberals want guns taken away from the citizens.