Straight or broken tempo?

I think they both have their place, depending on needs. You could even interchange them occasionally. If doing the broken tempo, you can take the miles slightly faster. The other really helps your ability to concentrate.

A couple of thoughts (coming from a Daniels' perspective):

First, you would not do a straight 5 mile tempo effort and a 5-6 x 1 mile effort at the same pace. Daniels identifies T pace, and sets that as the pace for both straight tempo runs and for broken tempos (what he calls cruise intervals); but his straight tempo runs are based on the assumption that you will run for 20 minutes, not closer to 28. In the second edition of his book, he provides a table that tells you how to adjust your "T" pace for runs of longer than 20 minute. In your case, the difference between 20 minute T pace and 28 minute T pace would be about 6 seconds per mile.

This sounds a lot like what the other poster said in their response, but I would note a subtle difference: while, based on the above, it is true that you would do 6 x 1 mile at about 6 seconds per mile faster than you would your 5 mile tempo run, that is only because your 5 mile tempo run is run at slower than the classic Daniels T pace since it is longer than 20 minutes. From a Daniels perspective, the purpose of cruise intervals is not to allow you to run slightly faster than T pace, but rather to allow you to do a greater overall volume of work at T pace. The other poster and I reach the same conclusion, but we may be coming at it in different ways.

I otherwise agree with the other poster - you should give consideration to running a mixture of threshold workouts. Cruise intervals will allow you to get more work in and thus greater physiological adaptations. Straight tempo runs will get you a little bit less physiological adaptation, but will yield mental benefits of forcing you to focus on pace while uncomfortable, teaching you to lock into body cues, and generally coming to terms with the sense of being in pain and being uncertain that you can maintain pace for the duration of the endeavor (what a sport we have chosen!).

I would also advocate mixing up your straight tempo runs, doing some at true Daniels T pace for 20 minutes, and doing others for 30 minutes at 6-7 seconds per mile slower. The 20 minute efforts will touch on the pain you feel in the 5k (it shouldn't get all the way there, but it might start approaching the neighborhood by the end), whereas the 30 minute tempo runs will give you a little more of the "slow burn" that happens in the 10k or half marathon than the 20 minute tempo run gives you.

A third option is to throw in a progression run from time to time, where you might average 20 minute T pace for the last 20 minutes of the effort, but part of that 20 minutes would be spent at a pace slightly slower than T pace, some at T pace and some at closer to 10k pace. I like progression runs early in a cycle when I am unsure about my fitness and want to touch on some different paces and test out different gears in an effort to identify T pace. I also like them at the end of a cycle because, when your fitness is there and you really nail it right, a progression run ends up giving you this feeling of almost running downhill and that downhill running feeling as you crank up the pace can be incredibly confidence instilling.

Bump

Canefis wrote:

Bump

Read the thread above you.

coach wrote:

Canefis wrote:

Bump

Read the thread above you.

Which one of them?

I don't do Daniels or any specific name brand training plans (or maybe I do and just don't know it?), but agree with Smoove and the others that a mix of both will serve you well. That 5 x 6 mins with 60 seconds rest is a killer and great workout. You can also just make it 5 x 1 mile so you know where the finish of each rep is and are not constantly watching the watch. The straight tempos should be a staple but will take their toll if you do them too often. I space mine out once every 10-14 days or so. FWIW: I do these on fairly hilly and undulating trails and my pace is significantly slower on them (6:10 min per mile) than my 5K race pace (5:20) on a flat/fast course. I'm also a huge fan of progressive runs that start out modest but ratchet up if I'm feeling good and need to rip a little. Most days I don't even plan for them, they just happen.

For people who don't check time stamps, this was from over two years ago. But I'll still give my thoughts. The 5 x 6 minute @5:30 workout would be a very early season workout, and eventually you'll just clump it all together as a 5 minute tempo. And eventually kick it up and do 5 x 5 minute of faster than tempo. And eventually 3 x 10 minute of faster than tempo.

Build the intensity as you get deeper into the season.

Why not do 5.30 steady or 5x6min@5.25? The 60s rest makes it a tad easier...

Miler5k wrote:

Which would be better for XC / 5k-10k training, doing a straight tempo run e.g 5 miles @5:30 pace

Or 5 x 6 mins @5:30 pace (60 rest)

Try to answer this question: How does one stimulate the lactate threshold improvement the most effective way? The answer is to run close to half marathon race pace as much total time as possible without overdo it. Then you best do it in intervals to get a high volume without exhaust yourself.

The Wizard JS wrote:

Miler5k wrote:

Which would be better for XC / 5k-10k training, doing a straight tempo run e.g 5 miles @5:30 pace

Or 5 x 6 mins @5:30 pace (60 rest)

Try to answer this question: How does one stimulate the lactate threshold improvement the most effective way? The answer is to run close to half marathon race pace as much total time as possible without overdo it. Then you best do it in intervals to get a high volume without exhaust yourself.

Half-marathon pace (just above marathon pace) is 80% VO2max , 88% HRmax*. So is what you suggest actually what, in essence, the Ingrebretsen's are doing with their supposedly(?) high volume of Lactate Threshold training?!?

*Source:

Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:

Half-marathon pace (just above marathon pace) is 80% VO2max , 88% HRmax*. So is what you suggest actually what, in essence, the Ingrebretsen's are doing with their supposedly(?) high volume of Lactate Threshold training?!?

bump

Is this the answer, and JS is actually nailing it, here? Is the key to high volume LT repetition training to keep the paces close to half-marathon race pace (or the heart rate close to but under that associated with half marathon racing)???

Alternating

400m @MP /

800m @10K pace

I typically do x6 for about 4.5miles total work plus 1 mile warmup & cooldown.

This has my HR floating back&forth between bottom&top of Zone4 which i think is good for threshold work. My zones are based off of % of LTHR(measured) and i use an accurate HRM.

Do you even comprehend how hurtful and homophobic it is to imply that the opposite of "straight" is "broken"?

I am not broken wrote:

Do you even comprehend how hurtful and homophobic it is to imply that the opposite of "straight" is "broken"?

Brokeback Mountain?

Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:

The Wizard JS wrote:

Try to answer this question: How does one stimulate the lactate threshold improvement the most effective way? The answer is to run close to half marathon race pace as much total time as possible without overdo it. Then you best do it in intervals to get a high volume without exhaust yourself.

Half-marathon pace (just above marathon pace) is 80% VO2max , 88% HRmax*. So is what you suggest actually what, in essence, the Ingrebretsen's are doing with their supposedly(?) high volume of Lactate Threshold training?!?

Jan Stensson is "wrong". Half marathon pace if fine for an LT session if LT pace = Half marathon pace.

Unless the athlete is a sub 61 half marathon runner, Stensson's prescribed pace is too slow.

Maybe that is why his athletes underperform.

Also, Jan, you replied to a 2 year old post.