Critique my 10 week marathon training plan

2:41

Monday w. 10 is too much. You did a workout on Th and a moderately long run on Sat, so it makes absolutely no sense to do a workout like that only 6 days before the race. Typical rookie mistake to try and cram in extra quality too close to goal race. You won´t gain any extra fitness, but only risk coming into the race feeling flat.

Goal is 2:32-2:35 based off my current 1:13:09 half PR

And I’m not sure on those last two weeks and how to properly taper for the marathon, how ould you advice I adjust those last couple of workouts/weeks. I’ve found if I take too many easy days leading up to a goal race in my other tapers I’ve felt flat, but I also the marathon is a totally different beast and if the first couple miles of the race are a little flat I have oodles off time to find that groove.

I think it mostly looks good. If you're coming off a lot of races I might rethink that half in week 3. Another 20 miler, perhaps with some stuff at or a bit slower than MP could be good.

And why the 5x1 mile at VO2? Summer programs include that kind of work in the end, but most are gearing towards more specific work. And that's your only VO2 workout around that time. So it seems weirdly tossed in.

I’ve thought about that first half marathon, and that’ll most likely be a decision made the week of, but for now I like it as a fitness test and good training stimulus since it’s a hilly course. And like I’ve said, the last two weeks is something I’m trying to figure out. The though behind the 5x mile is to get something quicker going close to the marathon to sharpen up in a sense; after hitting weeks of monotonous grinding tempos and marathon pace work and what not, that could be a good boost to perk up the legs. I could also be talking out of my ass since I have no experience prepping for a full. Any recommendations for those last 2 weeks?

I thought that might be the case with the half. It's certainly good to race one in a build up if you can, but so much depends on when they are available and how things feel leading up to it.

As far as the last two weeks go, yeah, it's tricky. I understand the desire to get that fresh, poppy feeling in the legs, but I don't think hard mile repeats are the best option. Mile repeats done with short rest but just a bit faster than MP, great. But close to 5k pace, I don't think so. If you want some snappy turnover feelings, fartleks are awesome, 1 min on/1 min off kind of stuff. You can open it up as it feels right, but there's no pressure to hit pace. And they're short enough to leave you fresh and not long enough to grind. You've got time, but look at various programs and what other runners of your ability are doing in those final weeks.

Good luck and keep us posted.

What do we think about this for a last two weeks:

Week 9:

S: 8 E

M: 4 AM and 12 PM 10-12x 1K @ TI

T: 8 E

W: 13 MLR

Th: 4 AM and 11 fartlek

F: 8 E

S: 16 long

Total: 84

Week 10:

S: 8 E

M: 10 w/ 4-6 @ marathon pace

T: 8 E

W: 9 w/ 2 mile tempo + 8x 200

Th: 6 E

F: 4 E

S: Marathon

Total: 72

I kept that Monday workout in week 10 but lessened it, I mostly just want that to be a dress rehearsal going into the marathon more than trying to get a stimulus.

That looks more consistent with the weeks that precede it. And I think lightening that last workout was a good plan. I might even go down to 8 miles total with 4 at MP. But I'm not expert. You're doing more miles than I've ever done, so I'm not sure what your taper should really look like. Hopefully some others chime in with some thoughts there.

But really, things look good. And you can make little tweaks as you go.

Thank you! Also a good point to remember that making tweaks along the way will be important based off of dealing with life, potential illnesses, and just listening to the body throughout high mileage.

tldr at bottom

How long will you have been training for that indoor 3K-5K cycle, and when exactly will this begin following that? The concern is just about the frontloaded volume / intensity, especially if you're not taking time off and planning to run 20+ weeks continuously with the first 5-10 including fast racing. That said, any critiques will disregard that.

W1 - maybe switch the T and W, depends how hard the fartlek workout is. at first glance the Th tempo workout seems harder, and you'd want more recovery before the 20 long. doing an MLR the day before seems a little rough. Also, make the S and F a 5/5 or 6/4 double. Your only doubles are on workout days, but maybe that's worked for you in the past.

W2 - seems fine, still going to preach the doubles on S on T for this week prior to the workouts and for more recovery after the 20 long from W1. I'll stop harping on it from now on unless it seems like it SHOULD be a double.

W3 - 2 weeks back to back with races seems fine but I don't think you need the tempo. Maybe doing the light fartlek type workout as you mentioned in your last paragraph would be more beneficial, or just doing a MLR on T and risking a little higher volume with a Wednesday and Thursday double. Keep your premeet at 6 of course, if that's what you're used to.

W4 - switch T and W. Keep your easy day before the harder workout. Seems pretty counter intuitive to do 14 the day before 18 which has 12 high quality miles. We're not even considering the fact you did 13 hard less than 5 days prior.

W5 - sunday should definitely be a double after 21 long. First longer run in a while that you've done after a lot of quality in week 4. This week there's no particular issue with MLR before the tempo day,

W6 - Switch T and W, and while I can appreciate keeping workout days hard and easy easy days, running 78 of your miles of your miles in 4 days and the remaining 30 in 3 seems REALLY dumb. Double and do like 2 x 6 or 2 x 7. Why do a double monday morning before a high quality 16 mile session. Quality and density can go well together, but it requires adequate recovery.

W7 - Sunday should be a double after 22 long and prepping for 21 the next day. That said, make the monday morning 4 if you still want to hold to doubling on monday workout days. You have a huge evening session, relegate that to Tuesday and have a larger double, or give the mile to Thursday so you can keep your standard 9-6-race setup you had in the earlier weeks.

W8 - Switch T and W. Please. F should be a double.

W9 - I agree with what others have said, the v02 session feels a little thrown in. If you wanted economy work switch this with the fartlek from W8 or something, and make the Th workout 18 w/ 14 @ M instead. MLR this week seems fine as you're coming down and Th isn't particularly hard. But if you've been switching it like I think you should, then keep MLR on T to stick to your routine.

W10 - seems fine, I would maybe make the M workout 12 w/ 5 mi alternating M and HM, ending at M pace. We have the same pre-race workout.

the amount of quality in this training plan can be concerning

you are correct. hopefully this helps.

tldr: please for the love of god double, stop having MLR's on days before huge high quality workouts, and increase the mileage on some of your easy days. hard days should be hard and easy days should be easy but you shove a LOT of mileage into your 3 or 4 big days.

Thank you for the in-depth feedback, it is super helpful. As for the racing season before, I’ll have run three indoor races in January, then I’m spending 10 days in Guatemala on a volunteer trip in which I’ll be able to run, but I’ll only be able to run around 4 to 6 miles a day, so that will be a down period, then I’ll have 5 weeks which end with that road 5K and then I jump right into the marathon cycle.

As for the doubles, I totally agree that some days it will be necessary to break it up into a 5/5 or 6/4, and those will be decisions made on the day depending on how my body feels.

As for running MLRs prior to workout days, this is a set up I’ve followed and had success with. I have preferred to run super easy the day after any sort of effort. I’ve been able to run easy for the majority of the MLR and end it with a couple of quicker miles or surges and it’s helped me feel opened up going into the next day. But I’m also aware these MLRs will be a few miles longer than the typical 11-12 milers that I have done.

Throw in a 5x 18 miler in there and you got a 2:08 easy

Thought more about this training plan, and 3-4 bigger days is risky and a lot to ask of myself, 10 day microcycles seem to be a better option, with 4 of those days being a 1 long run, 2 workouts, and 1 medium long run/fartlek. Also, instead of only 10 weeks, I'll include those 5 weeks beforehand that were going to be more 5K focused and intermingle a little marathon training into it as well for a 15 week, 10 microcycle plan.

So like I said in my initial post, I'll be in Guatemala for 10 days before this and I'll be able to run 4-6 miles a day, so that will be my down time. After I get back, I'll be 154 days out from the marathon, which breaks down in to 10 microcycles, plus 4 days before it. So here's an update of how I'm thinking of breaking it down.

Mini-micro cycle:

1: 8 E

2: 10 E

3: 12 w/ 6x mile @ TI

4: 8 E

Cycle 1:

1: 10 E

2: 12 w/ 6 @ T

3: 8 E

4: 16 Long

5: 8 E

6: 10 E

7: 11 w/ 8x 1K @ VO2

8: 8 E

9: 13 w/ 7 miles 4x 400 + 2 @ T + 4x 400 + 2 @ T + 4x 400

10: 8 E

Cycle 2:

1: 10 E

2: 5 AM + 11 PM w/ 5x mile @ VO2

3: 8 E

4: 18 Long

5: 4 AM + 8 PM

6: 10 E

7: 16 w/ 10 @ Marathon

8: 9 E

9: 14 w/ 8x mile @ TI

10: 9 E

Cycle 3:

1: 5 AM + 10 PM

2: 13 w/ 7 @ T

3: 9 E

4: 18 Long

5: 9 E

6: 10 E

7: 4 AM + 10 PM w/ 8x 800 @ VO@

8: 9 E

9: 6 E

10: 12 w/ 5K race

Cycle 4: ( where the initial plan started)

1: 9 E

2: 18 w/ 12 @ M pace

3: 9 E

4: 20 Long

5: 6 AM + 8 PM

6: 11 E

7: 14 w/ 8 @ T

8: 9 E

9: 5 AM + 12 PM Fartlek

10: 10 E

Cycle 5:

1: 4 AM + 14 PM 12x 1K

2: 9 E

3: 7 E

4: 15 w/ 10K race

5: 8 E

6: 18 Long

7: 6 AM + 8 PM

8: 5 AM + 12 PM w/ 6 @ T

9: 9 E

10: 6 E

Cycle 6:

1: 18 w/ half marathon race

2: 8 E

3: 5 AM + 10 PM

4: 21 Long

5: 10 E

6: 5 AM + 10 PM

7: 16 w/ 5x 2 mile

8: 10 E

9: 15 Fartlek/MLR

10: 6 AM + 8 PM

Cycle 7:

1: 15 w/ 9 @ T

2: 10 E

3: 5 AM + 10 PM

4: 22 Long

5: 9 E

6: 5 AM + 10 PM

7: 18 w/ 14 @ Marathon

8: 10 E

9: 10x mile @ TI

10: 6 AM + 8 PM

Cycle 8:

1: 18 w/ 4-5x 3 mile @ Marathon

2: 10 E

3: 23 Long

4: 10 E

5: 5 AM + 10 PM

6: 16 Fartlek/MLR

7: 8 E

8: 6 E

9: 18 w/ Half Marathon race

10: 8 E

Cycle 9:

1: 5 AM + 10 PM

2: 22 w/ 16 @ Marathon

3: 10 E

4: 5 AM + 10 PM

5: 20 Long

6: 10 E

7: 12 w/ 10x 1K @ TI

8: 9 E

9: 14 Fartlek/MLR

10: 9 E

Cycle 10:

1: 4 AM + 8 PM

2: 16 Long

3: 8 E

4: 8 E

5: 10 w/ 4-6 @ Marathon

6: 7 E

7: 9 w/ 2 mile T + 8x 200

8: 6 E

9: 3 E

10: MARATHON

week 4 - the HM in W3 is probably going to wipe you out some, I'd move the M fartlek to Th, and the Th @ MP to the S LR. (same advice for week 7 HM)

week 5 - 5x2mi - not sure the spread of your M and HM Paces, I'd suggest starting at about M-5s/mi and ending at HM

week 7 - 4x3mi - again probably start a little quicker than MP (MP-5s/mi) but this time end a little slower than HM (HMP+5s/mi)

Week 8 - 16 @ MP is going to be tough (probably why its your last hard effort), goodluck though

Week 9/10 - I am no master of the taper but you probably don't quite need that volume of intensity in there. I would cut 20-25% off the M Th and M workouts. The volume here is also going to be pretty specific to you, seems like you could cut 10miles off each W9 and W10 but that just depends on you

I am not sure about the two half marathon races, I would guess that for both of them you could skip the workout on monday for an easy run with the same volume. Just seems to dense quality wise.

In response to well - 6@M-pace really isnt that challanging so I think its ok to keep that W10 Monday workout (but reduce the volume to 4-5M). well is right in that there is no benefit from that workout other than avoidance of feeling flat.

in response to datboirunsfast - I tend to agree with the quality comment, he is probably right about doubling but we dont live in an ideal world. I don't agree with his W9 and W10 suggestions. The other weeks might be worth considering though.

not sure how to respond to your last post, but yeah seeing the 5 weeks previous would help