Ultrarunners - How would you structure a 6 month buildup for a 50 miler?

With your credentials and mileage YOU'RE the person WE should be asking about how to train for a 50mi race. If you're in 2:3X marathon shape with the mileage base to actually run the 50mi distance then you will win the race. Good luck.

A number of marathoners who moved to trails and ultras had success in the 50-mile distance right out of marathon training + some specific training for the terrain. Guys like Sage, Laney, Vargo, I think Krar...

50-milers are run at a pace where aerobic fitness and speed still matter. If you can increase your mileage, it will do you good.

You probably don't need to train more than once/week on the course. Make it a workout. It can be your long run some weeks, it can be your tempo effort, long intervals, etc.

If you can find somewhere to run continuously uphill for 5 miles or more, a mountain road or a treadmill, and make it a tempo effort, a few of those do wonders. Just don't do so many that you compromise faster training over flat terrain. You wanna win, you need marathon speed.

Good luck!

Train just like you would for a marathon, except do 2 long runs back to back. Also toss in a single long effort to work on your nutrition plan, equipment needs.

The key difference I've found going between marathon and 50+ miles is really where the weekly mileage is located vs overall weekly volume. You say you hit long runs of 15, 17, and 15, which is fine for some weeks, but other weeks should have long runs of 25/25 or even 30/20. Do that once or twice a month leading up to the race and you'll be good to go. Everything else can honestly just look like marathon training, at least for a 50 miler. Keep doing track speed workouts (12x800 is my go-to) and some 6-10 mile tempos mid-week. If you can, do the long runs on course. That will give you a massive leg up on everyone else.

I would not change anything you are doing. Just as an anecdote I ran a 7:30 50-miler on trail with some pretty good elevation gain in 90 degree weather a year ago, and I was in much worse shape than you are. Seems like your natural talent and current level of training will take you far and a 6:30 50-miler should be attainable. The only thing I would do is race a 50k 4 to 6 weeks out from your event, followed by a 15-mile run the next day. Also do not underestimate the power of having your stomach turn on you, so it will be very important to dial in your nutrition and hydration. Additionally if you are a person apt to cramp make sure you have a strategy dialed in to deal with that. Finally the most important thing will be to trust in yourself and your own ability, do not get caught up in trying to run too much mileage. 100 mile weeks should be more than sufficient. Additionally my motto in Ultras is "see the Carnage, don't be the Carnage". What that means is make sure you run within yourself and easier than you would like at the beginning as those later miles after 35 or 40 miles can start to feel impossible if you go out too hard at the beginning. Do not get caught up in running someone else's race early.

I plan on racing the Way Too Cool 50k 5 weeks out, and possibly a low key 50k a week before that one (salmon falls 50k, should be easy to win).

the 50 miler is the American River 50 in case I forgot to mention it.

I have experienced leg cramps in my last 2 50ks. I was undertrained for both if I had planned to run hard but went out at efforts that should've been easily maintained. calf cramps both times, which has never happened to me at any other time. was well hydrated both times but maybe had low electrolytes.

finally, I definitely plan to pace the race better than anybody else out there. this is the type of race where you get a couple 2:25 marathons every year who go out at 6:30 pace only to slow way down on the second half. the plan is to let them go immediately and probably run 7:00s through the road section.

it's interesting to see people recommend that I basically do marathon training with some longer, course-specific runs. that seems like it wouldn't prepare me to be able to run well after mile 30, which is how I want to race.

UltraSprinter wrote:

The key difference I've found going between marathon and 50+ miles is really where the weekly mileage is located vs overall weekly volume. You say you hit long runs of 15, 17, and 15, which is fine for some weeks, but other weeks should have long runs of 25/25 or even 30/20. Do that once or twice a month leading up to the race and you'll be good to go. Everything else can honestly just look like marathon training, at least for a 50 miler. Keep doing track speed workouts (12x800 is my go-to) and some 6-10 mile tempos mid-week. If you can, do the long runs on course. That will give you a massive leg up on everyone else.

I just did those 15-17 miles in the last few weeks after a long comeback from injury. I obviously plan to raise those significantly as I get closer to the race which is 6 months away. For october and november I think I'll stick to 18 milers though as I try to regain some XC fitness and build a base.

I'll comment on your comment about racing well after mile thirty.

This can be achieved only through proper race day pacing and proper nutrition during the race. The greatest way to dial these in is to run a 50 mile race. But that would be iffy since you are also doing the competitive 50k in the buildup. I would suggest you get an ultra coach for the 6 months. A coach would probably have you focus on things very specificly, like train your 5k/10k early on and abruptly go into long interval threshold training, then into steady runs that go very long, think 3 hours. During some.of these phases you can deemphasize easy runs. I know, isn't it all about volume? Yes and no, you'll have yo teyba 50 miler buildup and race at least once before you know your angle of attack.

In the actual race try to reign it in until 50k distance and then open it up. So whatever you run at WTC take that effort either by feel or HR and apply it to the last 20 miles of American river. See, you'll have to go much slower in the first 30 miles to achieve that. Also, little things like go slower on the clbs and faster on the downhills in the races.

I have dealt with cramps, for sure Hotshot as worked for me along with pickle juice. Find a pace that feels easier than you would like to run initially, probably more in the line of 7:15 to 7:30 pace to start out with and running some of the downhill sections a little bit faster, the main thing to know is that trying to save 30 seconds off of a few miles in the beginning may end up costing you dozens of minutes in the last 10 to 15 Miles. Also streamline what you will need at aid stations so you can get in and out in 1 to 3 minutes.

RastaMon wrote:

I have dealt with cramps, for sure Hotshot as worked for me along with pickle juice. Find a pace that feels easier than you would like to run initially, probably more in the line of 7:15 to 7:30 pace to start out with and running some of the downhill sections a little bit faster, the main thing to know is that trying to save 30 seconds off of a few miles in the beginning may end up costing you dozens of minutes in the last 10 to 15 Miles. Also streamline what you will need at aid stations so you can get in and out in 1 to 3 minutes.

Hotshot is a good idea. I haven't tried it but heard the "science" and it seems reasonable enough to me to at least try. pickle juice too. I'll have to remember to have my crew carry that with them.

speaking of crew, that's another benefit I could have, being local.

as for pacing, I'm definitely going to work that all out in FULL DETAIL once I've run more sections of the course. Like...you guys have no idea how detailed I'll get. I'll pull split data from previous AR50s...I'll manipulate strava segments and activities...I'll memorize the projected splits for each aid station down to the minute, for various goals and weather conditions.

and yeah, for sure the plan is to race conservatively. by April I'll have a better idea of what my 50mi time trial pace would be, which I'm guessing would be between 7:00 and 7:10, and I'll aim to hit those splits plus a few seconds for the early miles.

as for hiring a coach, I actually did that in 2017 while preparing for my first 50 miler at The North Face SF (which I ended up a DNS with the flu). I won't say who coached me but it was a current pro ultrarunner. At the time I wasn't doing a lot of speedwork so he/she had me start doing some easier interval workouts and hill workouts. long runs only had goals for elevation gain but not effort, which made more sense because TNF is a much hillier race than AR50. (TNF had ~10.5k ft of vert and AR50 has ~4k ft)

Honestly man, for a flat 50 miler - I’d say you should train for it just you would for a marathon.

Sounds like you’re already in good shape.. perhaps just bump up the mileage a bit.

My key suggestion would be to do a flat 50K 1 month out from race.

This will be a great tuneup for you as you prepare for the race

Seems like you're thinking through all of the right things. Here are a few additional considerations, some of which others have touched on:

- Nutrition: Try out a few different nutrition strategies as well as different fuel sources. I've gotten into ultras in over the past few years, and it took me a little bit to figure out that I do better with a fueling strategy that involves more liquids than I would have initially thought. I pretty much got through a 100k on Tailwind and Coke. I'm not saying that approach will work for everyone, but it took me a little bit to figure out a strategy that worked for me.

- Course Specific Training: You mentioned it already, but spending time getting yourself familiar with that course will go a long way. I live in the area and know those trails pretty well. Footing can be real tricky on that single track even though there's not a ton of elevation gain. It can be tough to get up to speed and navigate those rocks.

- Back to Back Long Runs: Sounds like you've got a solid base already in terms of training. If you weren't planning on doing it already, I'd try to work in some weekends where you go big Saturday, and then follow it up with a semi long run on Sunday to help simulate some of that late race fatigue. So, maybe something like 25-30 mi Sat, and then 15ish mi on Sun, or if you want to go time based, maybe 5 hrs on Sat, and then 3 on Sun.

I ran a 5:50 50-miler while in 16:10 5k and 2:42 marathon shape. I can share the 10-week training plan I followed.

Start off your blog with a few thousand words about why you want to run ultras. Include some inspirational quotes. Over the next few months continue to post weekly including a countdown to race day. Tell us how much you have been eating.

When you start your taper be sure to post about this and how difficult it will be for you. The night before race day post a photo of all the food you are going to eat during the race and some more inspirational quotes.

Hope this helps. You got this.

Jdbddd wrote:

With your credentials and mileage YOU'RE the person WE should be asking about how to train for a 50mi race. If you're in 2:3X marathon shape with the mileage base to actually run the 50mi distance then you will win the race. Good luck.

Actually too many fit marathoners go out too fast in ultras. I would advise the OP to run slightly slower than comfortable, and just go for a win, even if it's slower than what he intended.

tristate wrote:

Jdbddd wrote:

With your credentials and mileage YOU'RE the person WE should be asking about how to train for a 50mi race. If you're in 2:3X marathon shape with the mileage base to actually run the 50mi distance then you will win the race. Good luck.

Actually too many fit marathoners go out too fast in ultras. I would advise the OP to run slightly slower than comfortable, and just go for a win, even if it's slower than what he intended.

I think jdbddd was just kidding, or just making fun of me. both fine by me

plus, being in 2:30 marathon shape may not be good enough to win this race. it's not that competitive but the winners usually have run faster marathons than that. plus, my goal of winning really depends on who shows up and lots of other things. All I can do is run my own race and if I place 13th and run 6:20 I'll be pretty dang pleased.

Ultra Blog Reader wrote:

Start off your blog with a few thousand words about why you want to run ultras. Include some inspirational quotes. Over the next few months continue to post weekly including a countdown to race day. Tell us how much you have been eating.

When you start your taper be sure to post about this and how difficult it will be for you. The night before race day post a photo of all the food you are going to eat during the race and some more inspirational quotes.

Hope this helps. You got this.

and at the end of my race I'll post links to my new coaching website! thanks for all the great ideas!

robie - I've run the enough of the course to know that I need to run it more in practice. I've done a few runs starting at Douglas and a few down the trail from the overlook, 8 miles down toward folsom. I've probably covered the entire course but by April I'll be an expert for sure. I plan to run the final ~25 miles a couple times point-to-point at race effort, in addition to smaller chunks of it more often. I'm gonna hit the meatgrinder section a few times for sure to iron out a good strategy through there. as for nutrition, I've never tried a liquid-only plan for any race. AR50 serves Gu Roctane as it's sports drink which I might need to get used to consuming. I don't enjoy the taste, especially at room temperatures, but I can get over that.

runcrun- go ahead and send me that training plan. email available if you clock on my username. 5:50 is pretty solid depending on the course. last fall I was in about 15:50 5k shape off of 50mi training but never got to race...shame

With your talent you will do great! When I ran my 50 miler I didn’t change too much except I did back to back long runs. I ended up running a few 78-80 mile weeks. I worked up to a few 35 mile long runs. My typical training on the weekend would be Sat run 25-30 miles. Sunday run 16. I ended up doing quite a few marathons on Sat. My weekday mileage didn’t change too much from my regular marathon training. My race route was very hilly and most of it was on road not trail. So I ran all of my training on the road.