Michigan workout

We did this at Grand Valley State. The tempos were 1.5 miles though. It was called ROJO. Good workout!

*ROHO*

Sounds like a tough workout but I’m not sure what energy system this workout is trying to target? Not really a tempo workout and not realy a speed workout and not really a race.

ninetonite wrote:

Sounds like a tough workout but I’m not sure what energy system this workout is trying to target? Not really a tempo workout and not realy a speed workout and not really a race.

You train to race faster, not to "improve energy systems".

From the two workouts above, I think you can run 5 k in 16:30, maybe a bit faster.

The tempo miles should be faster. Try at least sub 6, if it feels too easy, maybe even 5:45.

Of course you can make every workout easier when you slow down. However, that's not the original Michigan workout then. It's a 'once-in-a-season'-workout, you should be prepared by a few easy days before and it should be hard to even finish the workout. Btw, I heard the tempos in original Michigan were 2 k's, not a mile, but I think for 'slower' runners a mile is perfect.

The beauty of a Michigan is that it can be adjusted according to the level of the runners in terms of volume and intensity.

Yes it was 2km . The the total distance was 10km (16,12,8,4 =4k; 3x2k =6k). That was the point - preparing for 10k XC. Faster than RP and slower than RP (tempo). Works out to approx. 10k RP for the 7 reps. Tough workout if done properly.

mid 16s

michiGAINZ wrote:

Questions:

Did I take the michigan too easy?

What could I run for 5k on a fast xc course?

What about 3200 (I haven’t done one in a while and I’m just curious)?

It seems clear you could have run the tempos harder (especially finishing in 61), but I don't think that's bad. From what I know about the michigan, it's usually just an opportunity for runners to overtrain. I don't believe in "once in a season workouts." Better to string together many good workouts on the body. LRC is full of "workout warriors."

Those 800s are very good- you average what? 2:32? (Quick mental calculation) You progress by a lot, which shows that you could average faster doing them at a constant pace.

As for times: 9:50 for 3200 and 16:20 for 5k xc at this point

Xcool wrote:

michiGAINZ wrote:

Questions:

Did I take the michigan too easy?

What could I run for 5k on a fast xc course?

What about 3200 (I haven’t done one in a while and I’m just curious)?

It seems clear you could have run the tempos harder (especially finishing in 61), but I don't think that's bad. From what I know about the michigan, it's usually just an opportunity for runners to overtrain. I don't believe in "once in a season workouts." Better to string together many good workouts on the body. LRC is full of "workout warriors."

Those 800s are very good- you average what? 2:32? (Quick mental calculation) You progress by a lot, which shows that you could average faster doing them at a constant pace.

As for times: 9:50 for 3200 and 16:20 for 5k xc at this point

Oops. "many good workouts on the body" makes not sense. I had written something else, which decided to change, but apparently I just left off rewriting half way through, combining the two sentences.

You get the gist though.

So, races never count as training. I would say the years of racing is what made me an OTQ. Just workouts don't get it done.

Never ran this workout. Is there a rest in between each segment? What's the traditional way this workout is performed--spikes on the track? Grass field? Flat trail/ bike path?

We did 2k loops on a bike path and the intervals on the track with 2 min rest between every rep. Usually you don't have time to spike up unless you are running the tempos on the track as well.

dumb response wrote:

So, races never count as training. I would say the years of racing is what made me an OTQ. Just workouts don't get it done.

I didn’t say anything about racing, bud.

You actually do make it clear that there should be a distinction between races and workouts in your response: “Just workouts don’t get it done.”

(This obviously implies some additional benefit that races bring to training that workouts don’t: I’m guessing you mean the intensity. Trying to do workouts at a race effort will detract from actual races, especially for a high schooler, who might have 2 races in any given week.)

I agree that athletes need to race, but this was a workout. No sense racing a workout.

Never ran it wrote:

Never ran this workout. Is there a rest in between each segment? What's the traditional way this workout is performed--spikes on the track? Grass field? Flat trail/ bike path?

I ran it this way (I doubt I did exactly the traditional Michigan, but it was fine for my purposes, so I don’t particularly care about the historical accuracy):

I never stopped running, but between the reps and the tempos I would jog slowly off the track to the start of my tempo (flat asphalt path). At the end of the tempo I came back into the track and just ran straight into the rep from tempo pace. (Sidenote: this made it hard to judge the start of my reps @ the right pace, so I ran big negative splits for the 12 and the 8). I was wearing trainers the whole time, which became soaked in the pouring rain and very heavy (I came to regret my thick cotton socks).

If you’re saying you had more in the tank for the Michigan and you were able to accomplish your goal of a gradual cutdown on your 800s, those aren’t race predictor workouts—predictors require going to the well (which is why predictors aren’t great every week workouts).

But those workouts can tell you the least you can do—which I would say is 16:20 for the 5k (and would be 16:10 if you had done the tempo segments of the Michigan at 6:00 like you said you felt like our could) and 9:55 for the 2-mile. But you may be able to go (substantially) faster, especially if those workouts are part of a long string of training of a similar quality.

Sounds like you have a few things to learn. Trust me, top level runners do race a workout or two a season. And they do it on purpose depending upon when their next race is scheduled. I did a Michigan workout or two with a group which included an Olympic medalist, another OTQ and an Olympian. The workout was needed and we did race the interval portions of the workout.

Just gonna step in here before two adults start fighting in some kid’s thread:

a) dumb response-I think you stepped in with a very adversarial response to Xcool’s suggestion that it wasn’t necessarily bad to not race a workout

b) Xcool- you came back a little too heavy when confronted with a contradictory response (although dumbs response did attack you for something you didn’t say)

c) Olympian vs slow HSer... hmm... can anyone see why there might be a difference in the ideal training for these two?? Also to dumb response: have you considered that when running a workout with an olympic medalist you’re more likely to be racing the workout than they are?

d) I can see either one of you being right depending on specifics:

If you have 3 weeks w/o a race, then you can go ahead and hammer 1 or 2 workouts.

If you have 1 or 2 races every week, then you should so restraint in your workouts to maximize the benefit of all your training (including races) and avoid injury/burnout.

Also: what event/time frame dumb response? (If you’re not a troll)

I guess I assumed that anyone doing a Michigan workout wasn't racing for a few weeks. We always used the Michigan as a race type effort. If a high schooler is doing a Michigan while racing 2 times per week, I wouldn't recommend that at all. If racing a couple of times per week, I more than agree with Xcool and would go a step further and say the workout shouldn't even be done.