Third World problems.
Third World problems.
I agree with all you have said except I don't think people that own pacing companies are getting rich.
Paul2432 wrote:
Races use plenty of other volunteers besides pacers. Volunteers are used at packet pickup, race start, aid stations, finish line, etc.
Race entry fees would probably increase substantially if every person doing work at the race had to be paid. I've volunteered at a few ultras and found it to be an enjoyable experience.
ironically, the quality of the races would probably go down as well. The races would almost certainly pay minimum wage or just a bit more. Volunteers are usually far more engaged than those just doing it for the money.
The op is referring to the other for profit company setting up pacing, not the race organization.
Paul2432 wrote:
Races use plenty of other volunteers besides pacers. Volunteers are used at packet pickup, race start, aid stations, finish line, etc.
Race entry fees would probably increase substantially if every person doing work at the race had to be paid. I've volunteered at a few ultras and found it to be an enjoyable experience.
ironically, the quality of the races would probably go down as well. The races would almost certainly pay minimum wage or just a bit more. Volunteers are usually far more engaged than those just doing it for the money.
Virtually anybody can stand in a corner holding a sign. What percentage of the population can run 26 miles at a specific pace?
It's as if you only read every other word.
I too have paced for Beast. I stopped pacing around 2 years ago, the amount of drama that the owner was able to stir up with other pacing companies, pacers and races was to say the least, pretty unbelievable. She actually bans people who help out other companies pace Lol.
Amazingly, pro football teams have been milking volunteers for "charity" purposes to run their concession stands.
The Tampa Bay Bucanneers are one example at their home games, but the NFL as a whole does it for the Super Bowl and I'm sure there are many other examples. Major League Baseball was caught up in a class action suit over its use of volunteers at the All Star Game.
If the race is not for profit, then there is no problem using volunteers. Hence, you take out the profit and take out the cost of paying people and the not for profit race is far cheaper than the for profit race. You actually see that when running clubs host races. Dolphin SE in SF still hosts races for just a few bucks; they are run competently; and they provide food and gatorade/water.
I got "fired" from Beast after making wisecracks in their FB group about having paid for the magic shirt and not receiving it for almost 2 years. She gets desperate and will eventually take anyone with a pulse. Races are better off partnering with local running shops to put together a pace team rather than Beast's "pickup game" of random runners. A naïve half marathon RD with a 200 finisher inaugural race doesn't need a 1:40 pacer who finishes in 4th place, let alone six more after that, but that's their bread and butter market. And yeah, making money off the goodwill of the folks who pace for them.
I used to pace wearing another organization's pace shirt just hoping to make it into the group pictures. But yes, there's drama between her and marathonpacing dot com, among others I'm sure. Pretty sure neither will hire you if you pace for the other.
zxcvzxcv wrote:
If the race is not for profit, then there is no problem using volunteers. Hence, you take out the profit and take out the cost of paying people and the not for profit race is far cheaper than the for profit race. You actually see that when running clubs host races. Dolphin SE in SF still hosts races for just a few bucks; they are run competently; and they provide food and gatorade/water.
I think the discussion is around a for-profit pacing company using volunteers when supporting a not-for-profit race. Not volunteers working for a not-for-profit race.
Why would you need a pacer. How often are you actually in shape to run exactly a 3:00:00 or 4:00:00 marathon. 5 minute intervals is a large gap.
You really need to develop and run YOUR pace.
Back when I began running in 1977 I would never have guessed what would become of this sport. Pacers in road races? What's the point of running at all? Part of the challenge is getting the pacing right yourself.
Where is the cliff for all these lemmings.
Pacers appear in professional and amateur races of almost every distance. For many road races, particularly the marathon, it's an added inducement to runners trying to BQ or reach a goal or just to spend their cash on an entry. Not every runner is as synched as you from 41yrs of plodding along.
I don't care to run with pacers for a variety of reasons. It doesn't bother me that others enjoy it as a pacer or pacee
Former Pacer wrote:
I too have paced for Beast. I stopped pacing around 2 years ago, the amount of drama that the owner was able to stir up with other pacing companies, pacers and races was to say the least, pretty unbelievable. She actually bans people who help out other companies pace Lol.
She knows me and my friends pace other teams and we are not banned.
Seems like you should get a crew of disgruntled former pacers together and go shake her down.
A similar situation has been unfolding in yoga studios that pay desk attendants in free classes- people have realized that they've been working for free while someone else profits and have been starting to speak up.
Masshole wrote:[/b}
Thoughts?
You're a 64 race moran. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me 64+ times, shame on my genetically deficient parents.
what is the point of even signing up to pace a marathon at a pace that is 20 minutes slower than your PR...the fact that its about 45 seconds per mile slower than your PR pace does not save your body from getting beat to shite. what do you get out of it if you aren't paid? My whole season would be a wash if i went out and ran a 2:40 marathon. maybe it just beats you up less the slower you are?
y tho wrote:
what is the point of even signing up to pace a marathon at a pace that is 20 minutes slower than your PR...the fact that its about 45 seconds per mile slower than your PR pace does not save your body from getting beat to shite. what do you get out of it if you aren't paid? My whole season would be a wash if i went out and ran a 2:40 marathon. maybe it just beats you up less the slower you are?
The only marathon I saw with a 2:40 pacer was Indy Monumental for Trials qualifiers. Most other marathons will have a 3:00 or a 3:05 pacer for BQs, and they're hard to fill because most
Wow. This is why a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. It's good for folks to ask questions. It's dangerous to rely on the internet for answers to legal questions.
To me, here's the bottom line: if you don't want to pace, when all you're getting is a free entry, a medal, and some drinks/food along the way, then DON'T DO IT! It's not for everyone.
But it is for some.
I pace. I enjoy helping others reach a goal. I don't want to be paid. It's a total hassle having to disclose such payments in the various places where I'd need to disclose them and not worth it at all. If I had to be paid to pace, I would not do it.