Illegal alien, i mean undocumented immigrant, charged with killing Iowa runner Mollie Tibbetts

If he is legal or illegal - the fact that he committed this murder in the United States means that he should be deported to wherever he came from.

illegel aliens wrote:

The murder rate for legal immigrants is lower but the rate for illegal aliens is much higher. People who are willing to put the work in to come here legally are good people but the illegals are criminals.

Do you have a legitimate source for your claim? Or are you just pulling "facts" out of your ass?

I'll tell you that years ago, I used to fall asleep listening to and watching murder documentaries. Maybe in a few years I'll work in law enforcement, or go for pathology. But once you see, read, and research hundreds of murders and motives, you start getting desensitized to each case. If I pursue forensic pathology, then I'll be the coroner that finds someone's DNA evidences and convicts them.

Just because I never demonstrated outrage about the Las Vegas shootings doesn't nullify my views on illegal immigration. There are different categories and circumstances for each incident.

The Las Vegas shootings is a domestic incident. No one knows the killer's motive.

This incident with Mollie Tibbetts? This is an international incident. We don't even know this killer's motives yet.

If you think you can quantify how much outrage someone should show based upon the number of deaths and people involved, then in my view, this murder in Iowa shouldn't be a concern to you because only 1 person died.

That guy in Las Vegas? He had a history of purchasing firearms and no one stopped him.

This illegal immigrant in Iowa? He was seen stalking Mollie Tibbetts. And then he committed murder, and now papers are saying that he blacked out during the entire affair.

You can't give immigrants a heavenly status. Just because they offer economic benefits and commit crime on a lower level statistically, you have to vet them carefully. You can't give an entire population a clean slate.

Remember what happened in Europe and Germany? You have immigrants raping and sexually assaulting German citizens. How can you overlook these atrocities and murders?

Your problem is that you're giving people a benefit of the doubt, and when they actually do something that's horrendous, you're ignoring all the people that warn you to be extra careful and diligent. That isn't virtue signaling. That is ignorance.

Duane wrote:

once again, tell that to the girls family "with this guy here statistically this area was safer than it would have been without him". good luck with that. "Lies, damn lies, and statistics"

In other words you are too stupid to understand basic concepts like crime rates? Seriously?

Your argument is precisely the equivalent of asking someone to say to the family of a murder victim in the safest city in the world, "Tell the victim's family how safe this city is." Cute little "argument". But stupid as all hell.

I brought that up because someone who I won't label as a moron said that the crime rate among immigrants is lower than that of citizens, so the more immigrants the safer the U.S. is.

local lib wrote:

Immigration reform != nuking immigration

What immigration reform would have prevented this? Note: rounding up all illegal immigrants and deporting them is not 'reform' -- that is about as close to nuking as it gets.

Number One is us wrote:

So are we really going to allow immigrants into the US even though they offer an economic benefit? Is a slightly marginal increase in the safety of our own worth the physical labor and hard work of other immigrants? Are we going to start viewing people the way insurances view people and their liability claims? Statistics, liabilities, damages, and fees?

When dealing with a nation of 300+ million people you can't process every anecdote and make a decision on individual stories -- or, at least, you shouldn't. You have to distill millions of individual stories into trends, into things that let you see the big picture and make effective policy that effects all citizens. I.e. statistics.

Laws that effect millions should rarely be based on a few data points.

Earth to Harambe. Even Trump is not talking about deporting all illegal immigrants!

I'm not outraged about this case that much because you are right that every crime/murder should be treated with equal weight.

I am outraged because people are defending undocumented immigrants. It's not all undocumented immigrants, but it's the very few. What is wrong with enforcing immigration laws and making it stricter?

If we're already restricting the number of people who can come in here, then why not be 100% sure they're the best fit instead of a good fit?

Just like college acceptances or job acceptances. We're not obligated to bring everyone in just because they pay hundreds of dollars to send application fees, or because they traveled 2 hours just to get here for an interview.

You're asking me to pity a murderer?

Well, statistically, he shouldn't have committed that crime since he's an undocumented immigrant. We'll let it slide.

What makes an undocumented immigrant part of our community? They're not citizens yet. They don't have the privileges of me arguing on behalf of them yet.

Remember how the news recently stopped talking about school shooters' names because they didn't want to glorify them and inspire other people to do what they do? All of those are isolated incidents, but it keeps rising.

If this whole case in Iowa is to demonstrate that violent crime rates from undocumented immigrants is very low, then it has failed to do so here.

What message are we getting across? That violent crime committed by undocumented immigrants are an anomaly and should be ignored?

Okay.

This guy is special. 4:30 miler??

I'll hold my hands up and say I saw an article from a local paper that said the accused was a legal resident.

I have since seen reports that suggest otherwise. I've no problem admitting I jumped the gun.

That said the points remain that he was employed by a Republican and Trump has also knowingly employed illegals.

You don't have to virtue signal here, mate. It's okay.

Duane wrote:

Earth to Harambe. Even Trump is not talking about deporting all illegal immigrants!

He could take greater steps to encourage self-deportation.

Also, he knows BY NAME every illegal who has ever over-stayed their visa.

math hammer wrote:

Duane wrote:

so what math convinces me and the girls family that it is the rate of crime that matters, not how many people are killed?

the math that says that it's safer to live in a city of a million with 100 murders per year than it is to live in town of 100 with 10 murders per year.

Duane wrote:

once again, tell that to the girls family "with this guy here statistically this area was safer than it would have been without him". good luck with that. "Lies, damn lies, and statistics"

so you don't understand math.

you specifically asked to convince you that it's the crime rate that matter no the total number of crimes. I'm not sure if your brain has the ability to comprehend. Can you answer this simple question?

which would you consider 'safer?

1. town of 100 with 10 murders a year?

2. town of a million with 11 murders a year?

your argument is as stupid as saying that if one person dies from a seat belt then they are dangerous.

"But Duane, the math shows that....."

Duane" "Math!? pffttt .....do stats comfort the family of the two children strangled by seatbelts last year?"

Harambe wrote:

What immigration reform would have prevented this?

Exactly this. The whole point of illegal immigration is that this guy didn't show up at the border and say "can I come in?" Being here illegally means he either came to visit and stayed or crossed the border illegally. No reform, apart from a guarded border wall (and even then, tunnels) would stop the second. Nothing will stop the first except ending tourism as a major source of foreign money entering our country.

No, the only thing that will limit illegal immigration is to impose harsh penalties on people who hire illegal immigrants.

It turns out that that farm where this guy worked didn't vet him. The didn't participate in everify. They asked a few questions and they said he lied. If that is the sum total of their verification, they need to be held responsible. I hope the girl's family sues the farm for all they are worth.

I'm sorry, but the Republicans are massive hypocrites. They use the illegal immigration issue to get elected and funnel money to their buddies who build walls, but they have no intention of getting rid of illegal immigrant labor in their country clubs, hotels, farms, meat processing plants, etc.

You lost your credibility to understand this issue when you pay attention to a murder by an undocumented immigrant, yet don’t follow one of the biggest mass murders in our country’s history. You obviously have a bone to pick with immigrants, yet aren’t concerned with preventing murders from US citizens. Statistically, they are much more likely to do a violent crime, yet your concern isn’t the guy who sprayed semi-automatic rounds and killed or injured nearly 1,000 people... that you don’t follow for some dumb reason. You follow a murder that involves one immigrant and one citizen.

I won’t protect this immigrant, but it’s people like you who stay quiet when it’s time to talk about gun law reform, but talk so loudly when it’s an illegal immigrant. It’s ridiculous.

Duane wrote:

try telling the family of the girl that what matters is the crime rate, not the number of murders

Consider this, would you rather live in a population of 300,000,000 and have 30,000 murders, or in a population of 30,000 and 3,000 murders. The former has a murder rate of 1 in 10,000 and the latter has a murder rate of 1 in 10. Every sensible person would prefer the former, but you imply the latter is better.

Do you think maybe immigrants (legal or illegal) may have committed crimes if they never came to America?

There may be reasons why people are more likely to commit crimes in certain countries (probability of being caught, severity of punishment, likelihood of deportation, opportunity), but people who committed serious crimes (murder, assault, armed robbery) are quite likely to have done this in their own country. Would you be happier if he had never come to America and killed someone in another country?