For all the Daniels evangelists - energy system is outdated

You could have written for all Lydiard evangelists-energy system is outdated.

Did you read the tweets?

As Lydiard Cerutty said here, quote:

As others have said you can do both as far as developing your aerobic and anaerobic system. As your body is more of a continuum, than distinct categories. Just the emphasis on which one you are trying to develop more depends on the training phase

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8927592&page=2

I think the OP is on target. The Daniels' folk claim anything outside of R, I, and T pace is more or less a waste on time as far as faster than easy pace is concerned.

I haven’t seen anything about actual energy system work being outdated.

It seems there’s more disagreement about whether or not strict periodization is efficient, and whether or not a “base period” consisting solely of easy pace running is beneficial.

tentimes wrote:

The Daniels' folk claim anything outside of R, I, and T pace is more or less a waste of time...

No they don't

I always wonder why those who are critical of a training approach are also frequently so light on affirmative and specific suggestions as to how people should train.

As an aside, I don't consider Daniels to be focused on energy systems (although LT is certainly a focus) as much as on what the limiting factor on running performance. I saybit as an aside because I think the "take a more wholistic and less reductionist approach" criticism is still a common one with regard to Daniels.

I respect Gambetta and I know Coach Vern Gambetta respects Joe Vigil. Joe Vigil is a coach that definitely uses energy system training within his program but that is by no means the only thing that encompasses a program for Coach Vigil. It is ok to take different approaches in training and use different terms but that doesn't mean we are not ending up at the same place.

Sand Dunes wrote:

As Lydiard Cerutty said here, quote:

As others have said you can do both as far as developing your aerobic and anaerobic system. As your body is more of a continuum, than distinct categories. Just the emphasis on which one you are trying to develop more depends on the training phase

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8927592&page=2

Our 'energy systems' are already developed. It's what you do with them that counts.

It's not about increasing aerobic or anearobic energy output. you already have that if you are healthy. Overweight non runners produce and use all the energy they ever need, but not efficiently when they try to run. So naturally they will perform poorly on that instrument of torture, the lab treadmill.

Everyone misses this point, blathering on and on about aerobic and anaerobic capacity. You improve your power output from each energy system by being more energy efficient. When you are healthy but out of shape for running, your aerobic and anaerobic capacitites are already in place and functioning perfectly as energy suppliers, but your sustained power is not functioning well because that energy use has to be controlled by improving movement skills. The sustained power is a funtion of neural conditioning and this neural conditioning has been traditionally overlooked in the training dogma.

Misconceptions = ignorance. I don't care what your qualifications are or what your coaching experience is, spouting endless dogma is not the way forward, it's just a refusal to learn, whilst seeking attention and unreasonably expecting your ill informed opinions to be respected.

Years ago I talked to Daniels.

We simplified his program based on the training I was using for high school kids.

Basically, without using V-dot, and other fancy terms we came up with this:

Build a base by just running mileage- hilly, flat, fast, slow- just run mileage.

Then add in 2-3 "hard" runs per week- mileage will obviously vary but these would be tempo runs. I had hilly, measured courses from 2.5-10 miles at my disposal.

Then add in some hill workouts- nothing fancy, whatever you have where you run. Run up, walk/jog down.

Then do "long" track work with 2-3 minute intervals (800's, 1K, like that).

Then shorten these as the season progresses and shorten the interval as you get closer to your target race(s).

If you want to race all year (no real peak race) then just mix things up a bit- do a couple workouts a week- hills, track, tempo, fartlek- mix it up.

Oh and during all of this your recovery days are real easy and you have a long run once a week.

No fancy numbers, no fancy terms.

+1