Sub 2h30 Fall Marathon

I too am shooting to go sub 2:30 in the fall, though it may be a long shot. I'll be racing in Richmond in early November.

I haven't raced in over 2 years when I ran 2:42 for my debut marathon on about 60 mpw.

I've built up to 80mpw and started to do workouts now. I did 13 miles at 6:00 pace in the middle of a 19 mile run yesterday when it was 80 degrees and humid. I've also done 4 x 2 mile w/ 2 min recovery averaging 11:15. And 6 x 1km w/ 2 min recovery averaging 3:14.

Smoove, it sounds like we're at similar places in one of Daniels plans. I'm basing my training on his 2Q for 71-85 mpw.

Welcome to the club! Indeed seems like a long shot, that sounds more like 2h36-37 workouts to me. The 4x2 miles you should be able to average like 10.55 in the middle of a 70 miles + week... that was what i was able to do... in 2h32 shape! Probably more like a 10 45 for sub 2h30. The 1000m i remember going 10 of those under 3.15 and interval time was shorter (cant remember if 90s or even 60s, and running like a 3.05 - 07 for the last). Going 2h36-37 would be already great improvement. But who knows! I am also not quite there yet but believe i can reach the sub 2h30 level in three months. Whats your Half PR? If you haven't run under 73 perhaps more sensible to aim a 2h35 Marathon? Or shoot for the moon and good luck!!

marathonNoob wrote:

I too am shooting to go sub 2:30 in the fall, though it may be a long shot. I'll be racing in Richmond in early November.

I haven't raced in over 2 years when I ran 2:42 for my debut marathon on about 60 mpw.

I've built up to 80mpw and started to do workouts now. I did 13 miles at 6:00 pace in the middle of a 19 mile run yesterday when it was 80 degrees and humid. I've also done 4 x 2 mile w/ 2 min recovery averaging 11:15. And 6 x 1km w/ 2 min recovery averaging 3:14.

Smoove, it sounds like we're at similar places in one of Daniels plans. I'm basing my training on his 2Q for 71-85 mpw.

Thanks for the welcome and advice! I think you're right that I'm more likely in 2:36-37 shape right now, but a lot can happen in 3 months!

The only half I raced was 7 or 8 years ago and I ran 75 on maybe 35mpw. I won't have a chance to race a half before November, but I could simulate a half race on my own in a few weeks if you think that would be helpful for my training.

My endurance seems pretty good right now (I ran 21 at 7 minute pace with no food the other day and felt fresh the whole time), but I haven't done any speed work in years so I'm guessing it'll take me a while to get that back.

marathonNoob wrote:

Smoove, it sounds like we're at similar places in one of Daniels plans. I'm basing my training on his 2Q for 71-85 mpw.

I have created my own plan, but it is definitely a Daniels inspired plan. I don't have the 3rd edition of his book, but the 2Q plan has always struck me as being pretty close to Marathon Training Plan A from the 2nd edition, which is what I used as the base for past marathon cycles. I have modified that even more this time around to stretch out my "weeks" to 8 days, to emphasize a half a dozen or so key long run workouts, and to address the fact that I was not in peak shape at the start of the cycle. So I won't exactly be just 3 or 4 weeks ahead of you, but most of the workouts are going to seem awfully familiar to you, and our mileage will probably be in about the same range.

That 13 miles at 6:00 in warm weather is pretty impressive, by the way.

It's nice to hear from somebody else who understands 80 degrees and 80% humidity. I definitely don't have the speed that you do right now, but I'm just getting back into speed work after over two years.

I actually started my plan to run a race in October and then changed what race I'm doing to Novemeber. That means I'm 3 weeks ahead in the Daniels plan, so I may take a week here or there to bump up my mileage to 90 or so.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the paces of workouts during the summer. I just checked my workout log from 2:28 a couple of years ago and my 4x2 mile workout 8 weeks out was in 11:10, 11:04, 10:58, 10:52. I would have liked to go faster of course but my legs just weren't there until the summer was over and I was able to taper. That's partly why I'm so impressed by Smoove's 3-2-1 workout in July.

Last week was pretty tame for me. I came home from New Braunfels with a bit of a cold and slept all day Sunday. Tried to run a 20 miler on Monday night but I had to cut it short then spent most of the week feeling like I didn't have anything in my legs.

M: 18 hard (6:38/mi)

T: 7 + 6

W: 6 + 7

H: 8

F: 6.5

Sa: 23 + 4

Su: 4 (hill sprints) + 6

Luckily I think I'm back to 100% this week and was able to get a workout in this morning.

andydufresne2 wrote:

I wouldn't put too much stock in the paces of workouts during the summer.

I was able to get down to 2:29 this past November and my July log had the following of note:

1) ~80 mpw average

2) 15:45 5k race

3) 4 mile tempo averaging 5:20

4) 6 x 800m with 200m jog rest (average of 2:32)

5) 1 min hard/easy, 2, 3, 4 and then back down again

6) 10m progression from 6:30 to 5:16

7) Longest single run was 15 miles

August then had a bunch of 0 days, mileage slipped, and workouts dropped in number/intensity as well. Then had a strong September and October. For summer (in places where it is often too hot to get any meaningful quality in), as long as you can get some consistent mileage, I'd call that a success... for someone shooting for a late fall marathon.

marathonNoob wrote:

I too am shooting to go sub 2:30 in the fall, though it may be a long shot. I'll be racing in Richmond in early November.

I haven't raced in over 2 years when I ran 2:42 for my debut marathon on about 60 mpw.

I've built up to 80mpw and started to do workouts now. I did 13 miles at 6:00 pace in the middle of a 19 mile run yesterday when it was 80 degrees and humid. I've also done 4 x 2 mile w/ 2 min recovery averaging 11:15. And 6 x 1km w/ 2 min recovery averaging 3:14.

Smoove, it sounds like we're at similar places in one of Daniels plans. I'm basing my training on his 2Q for 71-85 mpw.

Sorry to say it.....2:30 for you in the fall is a Mission impossible with that kind of training. Really a long shot I say )))

Anyway good luck with your training and race.

Schuylkill wrote:

andydufresne2 wrote:

I wouldn't put too much stock in the paces of workouts during the summer.

I was able to get down to 2:29 this past November and my July log had the following of note:

1) ~80 mpw average

2) 15:45 5k race

3) 4 mile tempo averaging 5:20

4) 6 x 800m with 200m jog rest (average of 2:32)

5) 1 min hard/easy, 2, 3, 4 and then back down again

6) 10m progression from 6:30 to 5:16

7) Longest single run was 15 miles

August then had a bunch of 0 days, mileage slipped, and workouts dropped in number/intensity as well. Then had a strong September and October. For summer (in places where it is often too hot to get any meaningful quality in), as long as you can get some consistent mileage, I'd call that a success... for someone shooting for a late fall marathon.

Congrats on your achievement, and if you can, please post some of your workouts from september and october as well!

I hate running on treadmills, my running technique definitely feels different and workouts do not seem accurate. Not that I have many options when traveling to China - yesterday was simply too scary to go outside. So hotel treadmill will be.

Ran 15k easy at 13.5 km/h pushing for the last 3k. Finished last 3 km in 9:40 going progressively. Would have been pretty hard at the track, but on the treadmill it is different. Honestly more like a 10:30 3k effort outside. Maybe the treadmill is just broken - after 5k @ 13.5 km/ (thats roughly 7:00 min/mile pace) i checked my heart rate and it was 135 - seems too low).

Finally some cooler weather; it makes a BIG difference. Today was 72 degrees. Still 85% humidity, so the air felt heavy but at least it was cool.

4 up

3 in 16:40

4 min rest

3 in 16:39

3 min rest

2 in 10:59

2 min rest

1 in 5:30

2 down

I was easily 15 seconds per mile faster than when I did that same workout 4 weeks ago in 80 degree temps.

I've heard so many people say they find running on the treadmill easier. For some reason, I've always found it more difficult, so I only use it for an occasional easy run. It's certainly a nice to have when there is no other option!

In my experience it's harder to warm up on a treadmill so I have to start out slower. By mile 3-4 it's roughly the same for most easy-tempo paces. Top-end paces tend to be a little easier on the treadmill though.

Smoove,

Looking over your training plan for Chicago, do you think it would make a huge difference doing a the 13 at marathon pace that you have listed for Labor Day weekend, the following weekend, the second weekend of September? Would still be a month out from Chicago. Just trying to plan out my weekends here once school and coaching start to kick back up. Thanks!

tp

I don't think it would matter too much, except to the extent it would impact the timing of other workouts. I find that to be an arduous workout, but as you will see, I have one scheduled about two weeks out from race day, and that is consistent with what I have done in the past. I usually try to find a half marathon to use to run these as it makes them a lot easier. I was able to find a half marathon two weeks out, so that is when I scheduled my last M pace run. I try not to get too bogged down on worrying about flip-flopping workouts beyond trying to adhere to the general principle that my most intense weeks should have the lowest volume of overall mileage, and my highest mileage weeks should be my least intense weeks.

Beyond that, I move things around as needed.

Fourth week finished, ran 90 km (roughly 56 miles) which is not enough but solid when I had only the treadmill available to run on a work trip to China. Long run yesterday (already back in Europe) was in brutal conditions - ran 30 km in ~ 30-32 degrees and really struggled (ran the first 10k in around 40 minutes and then had to slow down, the last 10 km I ran in about 55 minutes (yes that slow). Also my body was destroyed by the time zone difference.

On Thursday I did 6 x 1000m on the treadmill, progressively going 18.4 km / 18.7 km/h / 18.9 km/h / 19.2 km /h / 19.4 km/h / 20 km/h), resting about 90s between each.

This means I started first km in ~3:12 and finished with a 3:00 going progressively in-between.

I am sure I could not run such a workout at the track, but on the treadmill it feels much easier.

It seems I am at the right track. Will run very slow today and tomorrow and come back to the track on Wednesday.

good luck everyone!

Other than the volume being low, you almost didn't miss anything despite a tough travel week. Good stuff.

Mixed week for me - 66 miles plus 33 minutes on the elliptical, so a low mileage week.

First workout was solid. I intended 4 x3200 w/2:00 rest, but cut it ton3 x 3200. Didn't check watch - went by bheart rate and averaged 5:28/1600. Solid, but not great.

Second workout was a disaster. Intended to run 5/3/2 at approximately marathon pace. I was going to use 5:55-6:00 as the goal because of weather condtions (84 degrees/ 76 dew point), but got out too hard the first mile (5:46). Ended up running the 5 mile segment at a 5:50 average but the effort and my heart were much more like a tempo effort than a marathon paced effort. Made it a mile into the 3 mile segment and was at 6:01-6:02 but huffing and puffing with my heart rate up where it was during the end of my workout on Tuesday, and I shut it down. Just one of those off days. Still got a very good threshold workout in, but I'm disappointed in that one. Might take future M efforts to the treadmill.

Good weeks guys. Smoove, I think even getting a 5 mile tempo @ 5:50 is a pretty good training effect in those conditions. Pretty similar to 5 @ 5:30 in better conditions.

My last week was pretty solid. Still have some baby fat to lose and my paces aren't there, so I'm not ready to place any expectations on Chicago. 18 weeks until Dallas.

101 miles

M: 12 (workout) + 6 (easy)

T: 9 (easy)

W: 14 (workout)

H: 12 (easy) + 6 (very easy)

F: 10 (easy)

S: 20 (workout)

S: 10.5 (very easy)

Workout #1 (Monday): Treadmill 8x3 minutes on, 2 minutes jog (7:45/mi). Started at 5:25 pace and ended up running about 1400 meters on the last rep down to 4:50 pace to hit an even mileage number. 5:10/mi average, but not putting any stock in the speed, just an honest effort.

Workout #2 (Wednesday): 4x10 minutes T, 2:00 jog. Pace was 5:38, 5:36, 5:38, 5:25. Ran the full 2 on the last rep!

Workout #3 (Saturday): 10E (7:09/mi) + 5x1T w 1:00 jog (5:45, 5:41, 5:31, 5:36, 5:37) + 5E (6:40/mi)

I wanted to do 6-8 cruise intervals on Saturday but I was pretty cooked. The weather looked like it was going to be good but it was hot in the moment.