Steeple is tougher on men than women

You could ask that about all the hurdles events, not just the steeplechase. In the end it doesn't really matter because they're not compared to each other, but you're probably right that it makes jumping the barriers less of a factor in the women's.

When stepping the water jump, a woman has to make a stronger jump to clear the pit because they are stepping off of a lower barrier. This means that that hurdle is tougher for the women than the men.

It's also harder to jump hurdles if you're running slower, and women are slower than men.

Women who are 4” shorter than men. have the same inseam on average. So the difference in hurdle height is even more than it seems. I would like all events to be the same. Same hurdles, same weights, same xc distance.

The women's barrier initially was 24" when then they introduced the event for women. It was too low, and most women were "running through" the barriers without hurdling them. The heights generally go up in 3" increments, so the current height is 30", and the men's is 36".

This study is so flawed it isn't even funny. It's lone resource was one race in 2003. Coupled with the fact that it was performed by an institution that isn't really known for promoting women in professions other than raising children only further reinforces the misogynistic bias of the authors. If you want a real analysis of the impact of barriers on steeple times, simply compare flat 3000 meter times and records against steeple times and records. What you will find is that they are fairly proportional (in fact it would indicate the men's barriers are too low compared to womens). The womens' stride lengths were likely less affected in the one race likely is due to the fact that in the womens' race, steeplechase runners tend to be taller than average women (a lot of women are 5'9"-5'10", which is in the 90th percentile, whereas in the mens' race, the men tend to be shorter or average sized men (other than guys like Lincoln and Jager who are 6'2", most of the Kenyans are like 5'6"). All this study demonstrates is that in the womens steeple, it helps to be tall.

The men's steeple barrier (36") is higher than the women's 100M high hurdles (33"). The men's HH is 42". The women's 100M hurdles should at least be 36" to be considered high hurdles.

We're on here talking about the steeple chase, and your rebuttal is the high hurdles? Just goes to show how ignorant your original premise is that you feel forced to change the subject. Here are some numbers for you: Ratio of mens steeple WR to flat 3000 WR 1.0748 (ergo the barriers make it 7.5% more difficult). Ratio of womens steeple WR to flat 3000 WR 1.09601 (ergo the barriers make it 9.6% more difficult). You can do the same exercise for the 400 /400 Hurdles where you get a ratio of 1.08715 for the men and a ratio of 1.09958 for the women. You can try to apply it to the 100/110H for the men and the 100/100H for the women, but you have to adjust the mens flat 100 meters out to 110M. When you do that it comes out closer to 1.21465 for the men vs. 1.16301 for the women. So, if your argument is that the mens' high hurdles are too high, then there is merit there, but there is no basis for the womens' barrier being too low in the steeple (in fact the statistics support the opposite being true). You sound like an insecure man that got beat in a race by a woman and has now made it his personal mission to discredit the accomplishments of female athletes. Pathetic.

This Segregation is sexist either way. Let all humans race the same. May the best human win

Segregation is bad wrote:

This Segregation is sexist either way. Let all humans race the same. May the best human win

Says the insecure man with 15X as much testosterone. Learn to respect the accomplishments of female athletes in their own light.

How does your 3000 flat to steeple comparison hold water if none of the same runners are participating in the events? Some might argue slower runners gravitate to the barriers because their flat out speed isn't top notch.

Joe, I was referencing hurdle and barrier heights relative to the height of the genders. Statistically, women are 92% of men's height, and yet the steeple barriers are set at 83% of the men's barriers. The anomaly is much more warped (and an injustice to men) in the "high" hurdles where men (42") and women (33").

Hell, do they even call the 100 meter hurdles HIGH hurdles?

Now go home and get your shinebox.

Hfhshsufcidifchsh wrote:

How does your 3000 flat to steeple comparison hold water if none of the same runners are participating in the events? Some might argue slower runners gravitate to the barriers because their flat out speed isn't top notch.

By slower runners you mean those like Jenny Simpson, who basically broke every collegiate distance record she attempted while in college and won a world championship, numerous world championship medals and an Olympic medal at 1500 meters?

joedirt wrote:

Segregation is bad wrote:

This Segregation is sexist either way. Let all humans race the same. May the best human win

Says the insecure man with 15X as much testosterone. Learn to respect the accomplishments of female athletes in their own light.

The post had nothing to do with not respecting the accomplishments of female athletes. All athletes male or female should be respected for getting out there training hard and giving Track and Field their best shot. Having everyone race in the same race would not change that.

Predictor wrote:

Women who are 4” shorter than men. have the same inseam on average. So the difference in hurdle height is even more than it seems. I would like all events to be the same. Same hurdles, same weights, same xc distance.

I thought women had relatively shorter legs?

rfsdfsdf wrote:

Predictor wrote:

Women who are 4” shorter than men. have the same inseam on average. So the difference in hurdle height is even more than it seems. I would like all events to be the same. Same hurdles, same weights, same xc distance.

I thought women had relatively shorter legs?

Are not women also lighter on average? Surely this would be an advantage when doing repeated sub-maximal jumps during a steeple race (all other things being equal of course).

Because the water jump has a sloping exit from the water, and we can assume men jump farther horizontally because of greater speed, strength and leg length, women are on average landing in deeper water and having to run farther up the slope.

Carl Spackler wrote:

The women's barrier initially was 24" when then they introduced the event for women. It was too low, and most women were "running through" the barriers without hurdling them. The heights generally go up in 3" increments, so the current height is 30", and the men's is 36".

They still are "running through."

Look at any steeple photos. Women are leaping over with terrible form in almost standing position, with room to spare. Any woman with an actual hurdling technique clears the barrier by a huge amount.

It is actually comical how low they are. Years ago I posted a thread/photo of Emma Coburn clearing a barrier by about 18 inches, making the exact point of this thread, but it was deleted.

Average woman is 6" shorter than average man. Half of that (pubis height) is 3". Make the woman's barriers 33".

This will bring the women's times to the same 10-11% slower than men that they are in every other event. Right now woman are too close in steeple.

Done.

The times are already there. A fast men's time is 8:00, a fast women's time is 9:00. That is a 12.5% differential. What you are advocating for is beyond that. This thread really has revealed how whiny, insecure and pathetic a number of men on these boards are that they constantly have to bring up how unfair the women's steeple height is. Get a life.

joedirt wrote:

This thread really has revealed how whiny, insecure and pathetic a number of men on these boards are that they constantly have to bring up how unfair the women's steeple height is. Get a life.

A discussion is not whining. Women use the same size of obstacles in many other sports so why not in track and field? Should women tennis players have to hit the ball over a lower net?