So it looks like Science now studies that we might be the only so-called intelligent life out there, in observable universe

Fermi is just trying to figure out why hasn't it happened yet cause it SHOULD have. And imo, is reaching for straws as I do believe humans will be able to colonize the galaxy. And if we can, it makes no sense noone else hasn't. We are already on our second planet. Which is another reason why I dont think we will destroy ourselves.

Believe it or not, mankind is getting less violent and more peaceful. We went from the days of just murder whoever you want in the caveman days, to, world wars in the last century, so now we are most worried about some fat guy who MIGHT have nuks in some cold backwards country.

And once we figure out more technology to allow humans to not even have to work, then the reason for war will almost be non-existent. In other words, I don't think humans are going anywhere, in a very very long time.

So if we dont kill ourselves (my believe), and humans are able to colonize the galaxy in the next billion years, then why the hell hasnt ONE of the trillions of our rocks out there which had 10 billion years on us.

Cause we b the only ones imo!

I understand what you are saying, and that is probably / maybe true with most of them if you go with the ant theory. But just like anything, there are always bad apples out there, and it is hard for me to believe that at least ONE or 5 of the alien species out of the thousands that should exist, wouldn't want to say, F them, we will be bytches and mess with them.

I just don't think ALL alien species would be sooo kind to let us be. There would be a bad apple out there to mess with us, and since there hasn't, I don't believe there are any. Klingons come to mind ;)

Look at us mommy wrote:

I just don't think ALL alien species would be sooo kind to let us be. There would be a bad apple out there to mess with us, and since there hasn't, I don't believe there are any. Klingons come to mind ;)

You are assuming that other intelligent life forms have the same set of values or a similar thought process to humans.

The desire to 'mess' with someone out of malice is a human (even no other Earth species comes to mind) trait.

You are obtuse, imo.

kibitzer wrote:

Regardless of whether there's other intelligent life (which I actually consider likely--given that there are more stars in the known universe than there are grains of sand on all the beaches of Earth), the odds are extraordinarily slim that the species H. sapiens sapiens will ever encounter it.

The speed of light is a pretty daunting speed limit. Other stars are really, really far away.

This is a great post; one other thing I'd add to it would be the idea that in a universe over 13 billion years old the problem isn't just distance but also time. Most humans think 'a long time' is 100 years, or 500 years.. when really that is less than the blink of an eye. It's not difficult to imagine a civilization existing a million years ago (again, in universal terms not a terribly long period of time) far more advanced than our own, which we would never have known about, nor (obviously), would they have known about us.

I also want to take issue with posters suggesting that if life were plentiful in the universe space would be some sort of intergalactic freeway running past our solar system. The fact is life could be plentiful and no one might even know we are here! We aren't a particularly interesting system; imagine yourself driving through central Nebraska, and having to drive 300 miles down a cow path before you ever saw a sign of our presence, and that sign said we were another 80 miles away on an even bumpier road. The fact is the universe could be teeming with life that has no idea we even exist; we just don't know. Some form of AI is far more likely to be our (indirect) emissary to other worlds; the problems of interstellar space travel may in fact be just too difficult for our puny minds to solve and even if we could solve those problems it's doubtful a human would be the best candidate for those flights.

20 kg backpack wrote:

Look at us mommy wrote:

I just don't think ALL alien species would be sooo kind to let us be. There would be a bad apple out there to mess with us, and since there hasn't, I don't believe there are any. Klingons come to mind ;)

You are assuming that other intelligent life forms have the same set of values or a similar thought process to humans.

The desire to 'mess' with someone out of malice is a human (even no other Earth species comes to mind) trait.

Seriously? Have you never watched other animal species? They mess with each other all the time!

Just go turn on America's Funniest Home videos and watch some of the cat vs. dog clips. Those mugs messing with stuff out of malice ALL the time!

Is there "other life forms out there? " Maybe. It has definitely become envogue to say "there HAS to be other life 'out there' whether we know it or not. We are not special. "

Agingrunner wrote:

Is there "other life forms out there? " Maybe. It has definitely become envogue to say "there HAS to be other life 'out there' whether we know it or not. We are not special. "

We most definitely are NOT special, but try telling that to a christian who has been indoctrinated since birth with the idea we are created by 'god' and are the center of the universe...

We're just barely smarter than apes, or maybe not even as smart considering we're doing our best to crap our own nest and have enough weaponry to destroy ourselves many times over.

A few hundred years ago, humans thought the Earth was the center of the universe. We have come to learn that the Sun is the center of the solar system, the Milky Way Galaxy exists and our solar system is a small part of it, and billions of other galaxies exist. This knowledge was obtained in the span of a few hundred years.

As someone else stated, Radio waves travel at the speed of light and our signals have not even penetrated 1/1000th of the Milky Way galaxy yet. Similarly, other civilizations would likely have to have been transmitting continuously for millions of years to have a chance of coinciding with our technological existence and penetrating the vastness of space. The signals would also have to be strong enough for us to detect. This means a signal sent out in all directions over thousands to millions of light years would have to be seen by us as more powerful than the radio wave noise that come from stars, even as those signals are dissipating in all directions through space.

The probability is that there was, is or will be lots of intelligent life in the Universe. Even if it is One in a Trillion, there would be billions of intelligent life planets. However the chances of that life finding other life is near impossible due to the vastness of space and the laws of physics.

Denying science is willful ignorance and it is sad that people claim to be intelligent life and then ignore our own intelligence.

full frontal wrote:

Would somebody on another planet in another galaxy be able to receive radio waves and other such signs of life on Earth if they were trying to find life somewhere in the Milky Way Galaxy?

The nearest galaxy is Andromeda, which is 2.5 million light years away. Radio waves travel at the speed of light, so there is no chance that another galaxy would be picking up those waves until at the soonest 2.5 million years from now, at which point life on earth could be vastly different.

Devil Dog wrote:

Nothing better to study???? wrote:

Like saying we are responsible for global warming, calling us an intelligent life form is giving us way too much credit.

Conduct this simple experiment:

Park your car in your garage, close the garage door. Turn the car on and leave it running. The garage will represent the atmosphere, the exhaust fumes from your car will represent man-made greenhouse gasses, and you, inside the garage with the fumes will represent the health of the ecosystem. Report back to use after 24 hours.

LOL might need to have the coroner do that

Deer Runner wrote:

full frontal wrote:

Would somebody on another planet in another galaxy be able to receive radio waves and other such signs of life on Earth if they were trying to find life somewhere in the Milky Way Galaxy?

The nearest galaxy is Andromeda, which is 2.5 million light years away. Radio waves travel at the speed of light, so there is no chance that another galaxy would be picking up those waves until at the soonest 2.5 million years from now, at which point life on earth could be vastly different.

The oxygen in the atmosphere is maintained largely by plant life. They can look for that, its been there a lot longer than our radio waves. Shot up to 10% 2.4Gya then a further rise to current levels 0.6-0.8Gya. Other give away gases too.

Probably the strongest argument for why we don't detect radio signals from other civilizations is that they don't want to be detected. Some, including the late Stephen Hawking, have argued that broadcasting into outer space is risky:

https://www.space.com/8955-aliens.html

All of what you are saying is with the idea that we wont be able to figure those distance problems out. And I believe we will. What else we have to do for the next 1 million years. With AI, I believe most physics and other issues will be figured out in the next couple of thousand years.

People are contradicting themselves when they say there are sooo many planets out there that could have life / intelligent life but yet we don't see them.

There would only need to be one of those intelligent lifeforms to poplulate the milky way. But yet, NONE have.

It is one or the other. Either there are sooo many possibilities, or there is none. If there are soo many, then one would have to have been successful. But there is none.

Fermi shows how it isn't that hard to populate a vast amount of space. And yet, NONE have. And I do believe humans will. And I do not think we are that special other than we are the only ones that exist. Why, I do not know.

3hr-marathoner wrote:

Probably the strongest argument for why we don't detect radio signals from other civilizations is that they don't want to be detected. Some, including the late Stephen Hawking, have argued that broadcasting into outer space is risky:

Don't forget this is the guy who argued we should abandon the earth as we've made such a mess of it and start over on another planet. Like we won't mess the second one up right?

It seems to me that the best argument that faster-than-light-travel is impossible and will never happen is the fact that aliens don't appear to have populated our galaxy. It is likely that intelligent life emerged billions of years ago on other planets. It is also likely that some of those civilizations took technology to whatever physical limitations exist, and if THEY couldn't figure it out in the time they had, we probably won't either. They got stuck in their corner of the universe and are probably still stuck there now.

We are stuck in this galaxy until Andromeda hits us, and we'll probably never reach another galaxy after that.

That might explain inter-galaxy travel, but as Fermi shows, travel within the Milky Way should have happened easily.

It doesn't take long to populate a whole galaxy in relative terms. And nothing, that we know of, which I think should be enough to see something, has been found. Which leads me to the thing I said many times. Noone is home toto.

What if other planets had advanced civilizations millions of years ago, but the planet is Mars now, or wherever, and all is gone? Or, what if some planet way too far away is primordial soup right now, and will be surpassing us about the time we become Mars? It's naive to think other civilizations would exactly parallel human development.

The universe is almost 14bn years old. The odds of finding life at the same time as our existence is 0. But the odds of other life existing at any point in the last 14bn years besides ours is very high. Our sun will engulf us eventually and we will have never existed. Another life form who comes around say 1bn years from now will think they are the only ones.