What do you think of this guy's training?

Nothing new, look up how Mark Nenow, Ron Clarke and Michael Musyoki use too train.

Joggerbycomparison wrote:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fastrunning.com/features/ryan-burling-is-an-advocate-of-fast-running-at-all-times/16157/amp

Basically does all of his steady runs at 5.30 pace. No slouch, he ran a 66 HM in March and 14.45 5k a couple of weeks back, but I doubt even world class elites run this hard on easy days.

Thoughts?

If I was only running 14:45 and 66 off of 90 to 100 miles per week it would be very clear to me that I was doing something wrong. I'm surprised that someone can run that many miles at that pace and still be so slow.

No...but bit of a different comparing against a 27.20 10k runner. Probably the equivalent of Ryan running everything at 6min miles which is very different.

I should add, the article isn't BS. Check out his training on Strava. This week:

M: 6 @ 5.25/ 5 @ 5.36 ( c.4-5 hours btw runs)

T: 5 @ 5.23

W: 5 @ 5.29 / 10 @5.27 (again 4hours between runs)

Sessions more in line with his PRs.

not impressed wrote:

Joggerbycomparison wrote:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fastrunning.com/features/ryan-burling-is-an-advocate-of-fast-running-at-all-times/16157/amp

Basically does all of his steady runs at 5.30 pace. No slouch, he ran a 66 HM in March and 14.45 5k a couple of weeks back, but I doubt even world class elites run this hard on easy days.

Thoughts?

If I was only running 14:45 and 66 off of 90 to 100 miles per week it would be very clear to me that I was doing something wrong. I'm surprised that someone can run that many miles at that pace and still be so slow.

+1

The fact that this works at all is more testament to his talent than his training methods.

When your body can handle it, well good, but I also agree with the one saying it tells more about his talent than his trainingmethods, another way may have brought him closer to the runningGod administring top results than this path.

Joggerbycomparison wrote:

No...but bit of a different comparing against a 27.20 10k runner. Probably the equivalent of Ryan running everything at 6min miles which is very different.

I should add, the article isn't BS. Check out his training on Strava. This week:

M: 6 @ 5.25/ 5 @ 5.36 ( c.4-5 hours btw runs)

T: 5 @ 5.23

W: 5 @ 5.29 / 10 @5.27 (again 4hours between runs)

Sessions more in line with his PRs.

You have to remember Mark Nenow ran 6 minute miles over hills, which is about 5:30 minute mile over flat terrain.

I will sound very mean criticising someone (especially someone who is training hard), but I don't think this is the best way to train.

Looking at his most recent races, a few weeks ago he set a 10km PB on the track when he clocked 31'23.95 coming 12th in a race (so just outside 5'03 pace). His previous race to this was a 7 mile race on the roads when he won in 35'55. Now he won the race, but if you are racing 7 mile at 5'08 pace, then I don't see how you do a 6 mile in 5'25 (in a morning run) and have this as normal training, there should be a far bigger difference in your race pace.

I hope I am wrong, and he runs some great times but I wouldn't be advising anyone to copy this training

I'm surprised it's even possible to train like this. I have similar PRs (high 66 half, low 30 10k, mid 14 5k) and there is no way I could ever had handled this, nor do I know anyone of a similar standard who could.

Referencing Mark Nenow's (or other elites') training isn't a good comparison. He's 4 minutes slower over 10k! He's basically running all his volume at close to threshold pace. Maybe it will work out but I suspect that sooner or later it will take it's toll.

His 10,000 is 5:03 pace and his Half Marathon is 5:04 pace. I would love to know what his HR is during these races and his training.

Joggerbycomparison wrote:

M: 6 @ 5.25/ 5 @ 5.36 ( c.4-5 hours btw runs)

T: 5 @ 5.23

W: 5 @ 5.29 / 10 @5.27 (again 4hours between runs)

I'd be curious to see what his run is like on Thursday (today?). While I am far slower and older than this guy, I could possibly do a lot of 6:30 pace runs if only for 4 or 5 miles at a time. When you start getting up to an hour on your feet and doing 10 mile runs, that is considerably more wear and tear on your body and I would see that as difficult to recover from.

But, I'm envious of his abilities. I would love to be able to roll 5:25 miles like it's no big deal. If I had that talent, I would enter local 5K races every Saturday and Sunday in my area and win almost all of them.

Usedtobefast(ish) wrote:

I'm surprised it's even possible to train like this. I have similar PRs (high 66 half, low 30 10k, mid 14 5k) and there is no way I could ever had handled this, nor do I know anyone of a similar standard who could.

Referencing Mark Nenow's (or other elites') training isn't a good comparison. He's 4 minutes slower over 10k! He's basically running all his volume at close to threshold pace. Maybe it will work out but I suspect that sooner or later it will take it's toll.

I guarantee this guy would race faster if he didn't train stupidly. Just slowed down on his steady runs to 6-6:30 pace and ran his workouts faster. Even without running faster workouts if he just let his body recover properly he'd be faster.

I personally know a handful of runners in the 13:50-14:20 range and none of them train like this guy. All run much slower on their steady runs.

Joggerbycomparison wrote:

No...but bit of a different comparing against a 27.20 10k runner. Probably the equivalent of Ryan running everything at 6min miles which is very different.

I should add, the article isn't BS. Check out his training on Strava. This week:

M: 6 @ 5.25/ 5 @ 5.36 ( c.4-5 hours btw runs)

T: 5 @ 5.23

W: 5 @ 5.29 / 10 @5.27 (again 4hours between runs)

Sessions more in line with his PRs.

Link? I can’t find him.

setyourselffree wrote:

Joggerbycomparison wrote:

No...but bit of a different comparing against a 27.20 10k runner. Probably the equivalent of Ryan running everything at 6min miles which is very different.

I should add, the article isn't BS. Check out his training on Strava. This week:

M: 6 @ 5.25/ 5 @ 5.36 ( c.4-5 hours btw runs)

T: 5 @ 5.23

W: 5 @ 5.29 / 10 @5.27 (again 4hours between runs)

Sessions more in line with his PRs.

Link? I can’t find him.

Look him up on strava.

DMulvee wrote:

I will sound very mean criticising someone (especially someone who is training hard), but I don't think this is the best way to train.

Looking at his most recent races, a few weeks ago he set a 10km PB on the track when he clocked 31'23.95 coming 12th in a race (so just outside 5'03 pace). His previous race to this was a 7 mile race on the roads when he won in 35'55. Now he won the race, but if you are racing 7 mile at 5'08 pace, then I don't see how you do a 6 mile in 5'25 (in a morning run) and have this as normal training, there should be a far bigger difference in your race pace.

I hope I am wrong, and he runs some great times but I wouldn't be advising anyone to copy this training

I ran my 5k pr doing something similar, albeit a lot slower. When I ran 16 minutes for 5k (according to the Vdot calculator my easy pace should be around a 7 minute pace), I would usually run (just once a day, no doubles) 10-12 miles Monday through Saturday at around 6:00-6:30 pace, and 15 miles on Sunday at a 6 minute pace. I've plateaued since easing up on my pace and increasing my volume. I think I'm going go back to doing that.

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. Either he's not been trying in his races to date or his easy runs are nothing of the sort.

Article says he's got a coach - what the hell is he thinking? Because he hasn't got injured yet doesn't mean it won't happy. Even if he somehow doesn't break down, he'll burn out. You pay for efforts like that day in day out sooner or later.

HWer wrote:

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. Either he's not been trying in his races to date or his easy runs are nothing of the sort.

Article says he's got a coach - what the hell is he thinking? Because he hasn't got injured yet doesn't mean it won't happy. Even if he somehow doesn't break down, he'll burn out. You pay for efforts like that day in day out sooner or later.

He's already burnt out hence the slow times

Everyone is different in how good they are without any training, and in how they respond to different stimuli. Some of have a naturally high vo2max, some low. Some are able to vastly improve their vo2max over time with training, while others are low responders to vo2max training. Same thing with lactate threshold adaptation.

But, we can typically make some pretty good, educated guesses about what generally works and what generally does not work. By and large, vo2max and lactate threshold are both trainable, and we have a pretty decent idea as to how to train those things.

As a preliminary matter, I would say that it is hard to really say what has caused his improvements. He is only 24, and he has upped his mileage significantly, so it is certainly possible that a portion of his improvement is attributable to maturation and increased volume rather than steady-state running at what is probably just a bit slower than marathon pace. We also do not know how he trained before this, nor do we know if he would be a better runner if he trained at a slower pace on his non-workout days.

Assuming that some or all of his improvement is attributable to him running his non-workout days, based on the peer-reviewed science out there, I would reach one of two conclusions: either (1) running at just a bit slower than marathon pace results in an adaptation that is useful for running but has not been identified and this approach can be widely adopted, or (2) this guy is an outlier and is responding to training that works for him, but does have broad applicability to the population at large.

My guess is that his improvement has very little to do with running at this moderately hard pace (and to the extent there are benefits from this, they are mostly psychological), and to the extent that this guys is reaping any real benefit, it is likely because this guy is some kind of outlier, and just because it works for him does not make it an approach that the masses should try to emulate.

I know ryan personally and have trained with him.

He tried slower runs with me and some others fron our group and all that happened was he didnt race as well. You will also see he is on a clear upwards curve.

Why does no one on this site understand that each person is an individual and no one size fits all training method works.

Also he has a coach, his name is Tony Simmons. Look him up.

Thermiz wrote:

I know ryan personally and have trained with him.

He tried slower runs with me and some others fron our group and all that happened was he didnt race as well. You will also see he is on a clear upwards curve.

Why does no one on this site understand that each person is an individual and no one size fits all training method works.

Also he has a coach, his name is Tony Simmons. Look him up.

Do you have any info on Tony Simmons training philosophy?