Road Racing & Training Thread Week Ending 6-10-18

Yeah I was messing around... whatever Pap wants RRR to run is what R3 will run. Capping off a baller week (at least for this point) tomorrow morning.

Hope all you Dads out there have a good Fathers Day... Looking forward to some time with Mini RRR.

Stone,

Need your feedback on my "Canova-esque"/Magness/Hudson 5K Plan:

Currently in week 4 of fundamental period

Fundamental:

Regeneration 1-2 days after each hard "workout" or when feeling tired. One long run a week, but easy/moderate or however I'm feeling, trying to finish faster if I could

"Two" workouts:

1. 10 sec hill sprints which would progress to 80m flat sprints as I get closer to special period

2. fundamental tempo: 50-60-70 min... @ 1.25/1.2/1.15 slower than 5K pace (5:25)-ends up being about 6:45-6:30-6:15, this has been mentally challenging. Just finished week 4... 50 min @ 6:23 (mostly by feel).

Special: Need some help here, but from my research, 3 main "workouts"

1. Short, Fast rep, Long Rest @ 105% to 110% race pace- I'm guessing mile/3K pace

2. Long Rep, Short rest @ 92-95% RP- 10K/LT?

3. Long slowish tempo 24-36 mins@ 90% race pace

Specific: Need some help here, still in development,

Throughout this training, I will make sure to change the emphasis, but maintain what I've gained... for example, I may do less sprints during special or specific periods but make sure to do them at least once every 3 weeks or so...

Would love some feedback! Thanks

pewow - Great racing, my friend, and congrats on the 800 win! What a feeling that must be to kick it up another half gear and hold someone off at the tape. Nice job...makes me smile.

too hot wrote:

Canova and Lydiard have a few principles in common but the implementation is entirely different.

Lydiard believed anaerobic workouts were icing on the cake and only served to put your aerobic fitness to work.

Canova believes that the most important work you do is the race-specific training. All other training only supports this training.

Lydiard was quite carefree about interval workouts, so long as they were reasonably challenging. He described it in terms of lowering your arterial blood pH.

Note: Canova assumes that a runner has spent 8-10 years building their aerobic house. He misinterprets Lydiard when he says that Lydiard’s runners only ran 100mpw and his (Canova’s) “boys” run 150mpw. He also misinterprets Lydiard when he assumes that Lydiard basic conditioning has no effect after 3 years. But in fact, the basic conditioning is conducted at high-end aerobic paces.

An informative summary, too hot...thanks.

Got a few minutes so thought I would attach this article. This great information for both Panoma and Jeremy (and anyone else interested).

Written by Magness but referencing Canova's principles/practices. I have posted these HM workouts before, but now you will have a greater context as to WHY they work. While I haven't had the chance to experiment with the 5K workouts on myself, I have used the 5K workouts with some of my athletes with great success. Took a 40 year old woman from a 23:30 PR to a 21:20 PR in one cycle. And she negative split it, even though she swore afterward that she was slowing down the last mile. To me, that's the difference of workouts like these. They help you hold a redline longer.

https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20811165/workouts-to-improve-lactate-clearing-rates/

Stone, are they the only specific workouts you use for the half?

Panoma wrote:

Stone, are they the only specific workouts you use for the half?

No. More to come. Likely next week, though. But that's definitely a great series of workouts to base a schedule around.

Allen - you asked earlier this week about the philosophy behind the workouts in the slo plan. The article stone just posted lays it out nicely and is about what I expected. In sum, run fast, dump a bunch of lactate into your legs, then run a little bit slower, thereby conditioning the body to process lactate better while continuing to run. Same basic theory for alternations and broken intervals.

The Stone Cutter wrote:

Got a few minutes so thought I would attach this article. This great information for both Panoma and Jeremy (and anyone else interested).

Written by Magness but referencing Canova's principles/practices. I have posted these HM workouts before, but now you will have a greater context as to WHY they work. While I haven't had the chance to experiment with the 5K workouts on myself, I have used the 5K workouts with some of my athletes with great success. Took a 40 year old woman from a 23:30 PR to a 21:20 PR in one cycle. And she negative split it, even though she swore afterward that she was slowing down the last mile. To me, that's the difference of workouts like these. They help you hold a redline longer.

https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20811165/workouts-to-improve-lactate-clearing-rates/

This is what Pap is gonna start easing into my plan at the end of the month. I think it starts at 1 on 3 off and then progresses up.

It really does make a lot of sense teaching the body to recover while running at a good clip.

Thanks for the Article Stone.

Too hot misinterprets Canova, (version 1million)

Thanks Stone. I actually do own The Science of Running, but I applied it REALLY poorly last year. I thought I was smarter than the author LOL

Redux1 wrote:

outsiderunner wrote:

An informative summary, too hot...thanks.

Too hot misinterprets Canova, (version 1million)

How so? Please enlighten us, cowardly troll. Afraid of posting under your regular handle because you might make a fool out of yourself?

angryjohnny wrote:

Allen - you asked earlier this week about the philosophy behind the workouts in the slo plan. The article stone just posted lays it out nicely and is about what I expected. In sum, run fast, dump a bunch of lactate into your legs, then run a little bit slower, thereby conditioning the body to process lactate better while continuing to run. Same basic theory for alternations and broken intervals.

Thanks! I will give it a read tonight. Heading out now for a 3 x 2-mile workout. Maybe I will regret not coming up with something different, eh?

3x2 is never a bad idea. Go get em.

too hot wrote:

Redux1 wrote:

Too hot misinterprets Canova, (version 1million)

How so? Please enlighten us, cowardly troll. Afraid of posting under your regular handle because you might make a fool out of yourself?

lol, that obviously doesn’t stop you from posting under your regular handle. how’s that registered username situation shaping up?

angryjohnny wrote:

3x2 is never a bad idea. Go get em.

The old three duece ... .always a good time..

Redux1 wrote:

too hot wrote:

How so? Please enlighten us, cowardly troll. Afraid of posting under your regular handle because you might make a fool out of yourself?

lol, that obviously doesn’t stop you from posting under your regular handle. how’s that registered username situation shaping up?

What’s worse is that you have a registered username and don’t use it to respond to a discussion that is apparently over your head. You have contributed nothing to the Canova topic. I called you out and you are still hiding. At least I post under the same username every time.

You have no idea whether I’ve contributed to the Canova discussion or not, but I’m basically positive that you haven’t contributed anything of substance to any discussions! Back to ignoring you.

The Stone Cutter wrote:

Got a few minutes so thought I would attach this article. This great information for both Panoma and Jeremy (and anyone else interested).

Written by Magness but referencing Canova's principles/practices. I have posted these HM workouts before, but now you will have a greater context as to WHY they work. While I haven't had the chance to experiment with the 5K workouts on myself, I have used the 5K workouts with some of my athletes with great success. Took a 40 year old woman from a 23:30 PR to a 21:20 PR in one cycle. And she negative split it, even though she swore afterward that she was slowing down the last mile. To me, that's the difference of workouts like these. They help you hold a redline longer.

https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20811165/workouts-to-improve-lactate-clearing-rates/

"When training for the marathon, race pace should be alternated with a pace that's initially 15 to 20 seconds faster per mile, as this will train the body to use lactate as a fuel source at marathon pace."

Reminds me of some of the Daniels workouts that alternate M and T pace.