Coach Jeff ROC wrote:
"coachability"
ee Cummings woulda hated auto correct
and
the
goat-footed
balloonMan whistles
far
and
wee
Coach Jeff ROC wrote:
"coachability"
ee Cummings woulda hated auto correct
and
the
goat-footed
balloonMan whistles
far
and
wee
Coach Jeff ROC wrote:
"coachability"
ee Cummings woulda hated auto correct
lydiard told
him:he couldn’t
believe it(daniels
told him;he
wouldn’t believe
it) han
sons
certainly told
him,and renato
(yes
mam)
canova;
and even
(believe it
or
not)you
told him:i told
him;we told him
(he didn’t believe it,no
sir)it took
a weaponized bonk on
the old willis
avenue
bridge:to tell
him
One of my favorite posts ever. Well done.?
angryjohnny wrote:
The Stone Cutter wrote:
Would I advocate following a custom Hansons plan? Absolutely. A custom Canova plan? Absolutely. A custom Daniels or Hudsons or Pfitzinger plan? Absolutely. I think there is certainly room and value for all of these type plans that, when followed the way they were actually designed and intended, will adequately prepare you for race day. Do some athletes thrive and succeed at throwing paint on a wall and seeing what sticks? Sure. But to me that is far less predictable and reliable.
But, yes, I think a Canova plan gives you the most tools for your toolbelt, so that when race day comes, you are more adequately equipped to succeed. Just my two cents.
To me, which plan you choose is much less important than simply having a plan to begin with.
Agreed. Especially when you believe in the plan
Stone Cutter. do you ever do the diagonals?
Pappy wrote:
Stone Cutter. do you ever do the diagonals?
I have to laugh. My only run this week so far was 30:00 back and forth on a 200m bike path outside my daughters’ music teacher’s studio. Had to sneak it in when I had s break but still be close by (my younger daughter is autistic). I did one direction on, one direction off. Much like my high school days of soccer field diagonals. Or 100m or 200m in and outs. Another fave of the tesm was the Indian style runs on the track.
All great ways to make “speed” fun.
If you have access to a local field, I would certainly incorporate diagonals into training.
Just curious. Canova has used them with some of his guys and yes they are fun. I never liked the Indian runs. Had to do them a lot as a sophomore in HS. We had a 4:12 miler and 2 1:56 800 runners that wouldn't play nice on them.
bril
liant!
Stone. Amazing stuff. Thanks.
My interpretation of how you broke workouts down into the speed and endurance funnel for the marathon was awesome.
What would that look like for a half marathon progresssion on both ends of the funnel in your opinion?
I wonder while discussing some things if RRR thinks "What the hell is a diagonal, who does diagonals, why do they do diagonals and am I going to do diagonals?" One of the answers is Yes a variation starting in 6 weeks.
Race Report
800m - Found out while checking in for the 800 that the 3000 was going to be right after the 800 finished as the meet was running 2hr behind schedule. Decided to focus on winning the 800 to try and make the double more feasible. Made sure I had the lead coming off the first turn and came through the 1st 400 in 61 & change leading a group of three. I felt pretty relaxed and in control. The runner in 3rd made a move on the backstretch and came up on my shoulder at 200 to go. I held him off and thought I was sitting pretty coming down the homestretch until I heard someone (the other runner in the lead pack) charging behind me. Fortunately I was able to change gears quickly, sprinted the last 70m all out and leaned at the finish line to hold him off.
2:05 (61.x, 63.x) and a blast to run a competitive and tactical race.
3000m - This was right after the 800. Finished the 800 and then walked over to the 3000 start line. There were supposed to be 45min of 100s in between but they ran the 100s in lanes 3-8 during the 3000 to save time. I was hoping to break my 9:24 PR but 50m in I knew that wasn't going to happen. The top two were way up the track in sub70 for the 1st 400 and I decided to run for place with the main goal of beating my sometimes training partner who came in 3rd in the 800. Tucked in the back of 3-5 place group and we came through 1600 in 5:18. One guy broke away with 1200 to go and my training partner wasn't closing the gap so I went after him. Couldn't catch 3rd place and my training partner out kicked me the last 100.
5th place overall, 10:00 (would be nice in official results if I'm sub 10 but I doubt it). Running 5:20 pace didn't feel hard but I just couldn't seem to go any faster.
The 800 was a lot of fun so overall it was a good night.
pewow, Congrats on the 800!!! 205 is pretty good. I never ran races that close together. I'm sure the 800 took a lot out of you. 10:00 not bad under the conditions!
Coach Jeff ROC wrote:
My training before Hanson's was like trying to drive a wood screw with a butter knife; it can be done, but not efficiently. Hanson's was the perfect Phillips head for me at the time. After using it successfully, I felt I no longer needed to be screwed... I had become a nut... and those closest to me feel I remain a nut to this very day.
Thanks. Should have thought about your experimental tendencies. Makes sense.
After one or 2 times through, I think I'm still a wood screw for now. Or is it that I haven't been screwed enough? I don't know...I think I may have lost the analogy there...
Anyway, there's room for Hanson to continue screwing me is all. Hopefully I don't get screwed too hard and split my wood. (Did I lose the analogy again? Should I be more worried about stripping, than the integrity of my wood? I don't think I have the tools for that.)
Happy Friday, everybody.
Well done pewow. Good job holding them off on the 800. Your double reminds me of cheserek’s feat here in Birmingham in 2016 winning the 5k and anchoring the DMR 30 minutes later. But at least he had 30 minutes. I can’t imagine attempting what you did.
pewow -- Nicely done! That 800 sounds perfect, and a great way to kick off the summer track season. And some real fortitude to run the 3000 with no recovery! Especially impressive to me, as you still ran exactly my 1500 PR pace for twice the distance (4:30 PR at age17)!
Pewow - Nice Racing baby!!
Pappy - I was thinking what the H*ll are diagonals. Sounds like not that much fun...
Canova and Lydiard have a few principles in common but the implementation is entirely different.
Lydiard believed anaerobic workouts were icing on the cake and only served to put your aerobic fitness to work.
Canova believes that the most important work you do is the race-specific training. All other training only supports this training.
Lydiard was quite carefree about interval workouts, so long as they were reasonably challenging. He described it in terms of lowering your arterial blood pH.
Note: Canova assumes that a runner has spent 8-10 years building their aerobic house. He misinterprets Lydiard when he says that Lydiard’s runners only ran 100mpw and his (Canova’s) “boys” run 150mpw. He also misinterprets Lydiard when he assumes that Lydiard basic conditioning has no effect after 3 years. But in fact, the basic conditioning is conducted at high-end aerobic paces.
Nice job pewow, I ran the 800m once as a senior in HS, 2:03... I miss racing the shorter stuff.
I wish our local running store here would do like mile races (Smoove, don't you have some pull???)
Awesome job Pewow. Really motoring out there, and shows a lot of character to jump back into that second race in a non-ideal state.
Regarding the early week discussion about warming up with 800m of hard running...we at least have a data point now that doing it at 800m race pace may be too hard (haha).
Great work Pewow. There is a 0% chance that I would have run the 3000m in that situation. That took some fortitude. Also, you were only 2 seconds off of my lifetime 800m PR.